Montego TD Head gasket

[F 447]

:confused: Looks like I've got to have a go at me Head Gasket sooner than I'd hoped. Never done an Overhead cam Head Gasket before, let alone a diesel. Any advice, tips and or tricks welcomed. I do have the Haynes manual for this engine, but, what special tools will I need? Haynes manuals have a tendancy of making things sound a lot easier than they actually are. Thanks.
Also, I seem to be getting more play in my clutch cable, are the auto tensioners known for playing up on these?

[steve smith]

just make sure that u have the kit for locking up the engine before u start i lost a bit from mine and had a hell of a job getting my montego td to run but i did put a new head on it. but it is an easy job thats if it has been taken apart before but a word of advise if u get a recon head froma maestro diesel don't use the cam shafti won't work it took me 3 days to find that out now she runs as good as gold. also while u are at it why not replace the cam belt as well but that does depend on when it was done last.


good luck.

[MGTurbo]

I did this a few months ago, you can check by doing a search.

You do not have to remove the turbo to remove the head. The manifolds can be removed with the head in place. Ensure the cam is locked in place, and a drill bit inserted into the flywheel housing to lock the crank, also make sure the injector pump is completely locked, and use plenty of reference marks just in case. The cam wheel has to come off and this is a little awkward, it's also a bugger getting the dipstick bolt undone because of lack of space. But its fairly straightforward, albeit time consuming, good luck!

Gareth

[F 447]

;) Thank you both for your replies. I understand I need two 6.75mm drill bits to lock the cam and the bottom end. But what do I use to lock the injector pump? What make of Gasket did you use and what price did you pay?
I do intend to renew the cambelt and hopefully the waterpump, cos that seems to be getting noisy

[BIGLAD]

Originally posted by F 447
;) Thank you both for your replies. I understand I need two 6.75mm drill bits to lock the cam and the bottom end. But what do I use to lock the injector pump? What make of Gasket did you use and what price did you pay?
I do intend to renew the cambelt and hopefully the waterpump, cos that seems to be getting noisy

Hi,
You need to lock the injection pump via the 2 Non threaded holes in the pumps pulley. Use 2 M6 bolts to do this. The pumps pulley has 2 marks/letters on. make sure that you line the correct one up with the "pip"/mark on the plastic cover.
Use a good quality head gasket. Payen, FAI etc.

Biglad

[F 447]

;) Thanks for your reply Biglad.

[MGTurbo]

Use only genuine head gasket i.e Unipart/Rover, anything else wont cut it for the job. It's only £16 quid.

Gareth

[F 447]

;) O.K., Thanks gareth, will get a genuine Head gasket.

[BIGLAD]

Hi,
Payen used to supply Unipart/Rover with most their gasket sets for O.E at one time.
Definately the "A" and "K" series and i'm pretty sure most of the other stuff too.
I'm not sure about now though since MG-Rover and Unipart have gone their seperate ways.
I don't know what the price difference is on just the gasket nowadays, but the genuine head sets were nearly double the price!
Biglad

[F 447]

;) OK Biglad, I will try and get a Payen one first, I'm sure they are the best quality.

[MGTurbo]

Just get Rover, they may at one point used Payen for gasket's but i see Payen as a cheap, mass produced pattern part, the Rover gasket is definatly nothing like a Payen type in construction, like i said, for £16 for the gasket, this is hardly expensive, if you want to do things properly use the proper parts.

A Payen or pattern gasket may well be a few quid cheaper but do you want it to last? The TD runs 14psi of boost pressure yet doesnt use a multi-layered gasket, it's vital that a gasket of O.E quality is used.

Gareth

[BIGLAD]

Originally posted by MGTurbo
Just get Rover, they may at one point used Payen for gasket's but i see Payen as a cheap, mass produced pattern part, the Rover gasket is definatly nothing like a Payen type in construction, like i said, for £16 for the gasket, this is hardly expensive, if you want to do things properly use the proper parts.

A Payen or pattern gasket may well be a few quid cheaper but do you want it to last? The TD runs 14psi of boost pressure yet doesnt use a multi-layered gasket, it's vital that a gasket of O.E quality is used.

Gareth

MG-Rover don't make their own gaskets, they buy them in from people who can manufacture the right quality at the right cost.
The only time they change is if they get huge warranty numbers back that the manufacturer cannot resolve, or the supplier ups the price so much that it becomes uneconomical to buy from them.
Some vehicle manufacturers source from more than one supplier, (remember Peugeot/Citroen and the many different brake set ups they used!!)
But the MDi unit has been "dead" for about 8-9 years now and MG-Rover wont be wasting time (and money)looking for better deals/switching suppliers on an engine/components that they no longer use.

If you buy a genuine rover timing belt, who's are you buying? Not MG-Rovers because they buy them in. Usually from Gates'-Powergrip.

If you look at a heater matrix on a Montego/Maestro is it made by MG-Rover, no they are made by Valeo Climate Control.

Payen do not only supply the aftermarket they also supply O.E manufacturers.
Back in the early 90's, who were the only people you could buy a "K" series Head Gasket/Set from (the one with the "proper" bead of "pink" silicone bonded to the multi-layer gasket) other than Rover Group/Unipart?
It was Payen.

I agree that some gaskets are not of the same quality.
You can buy "A" and "K" series Head Gaskets from a company called Ult**Pa**ts and they are made from what looks like a composite material and they are C**p!
The MDi Payen gasket (from a set) and an individual genuine gasket that i have in my garage are phisically identical.

Biglad.

[MGTurbo]

Back in the early 90's, who were the only people you could buy a "K" series Head Gasket/Set from (the one with the "proper" bead of "pink" silicone bonded to the multi-layer gasket) other than Rover Group/Unipart? It was Payen.


And what happened when the pink bead of sealent started to break down? The gasket failed. Hence the K series's poor repuation for HGF.

My only simple advice in this post is go to MG-Rover, your then guarunteed that the part you buy is of good enough quality, and the price is no more expensive than at a factor's.


Gareth

[BIGLAD]

Originally posted by MGTurbo
And what happened when the pink bead of sealent started to break down? The gasket failed. Hence the K series's poor repuation for HGF.

My only simple advice in this post is go to MG-Rover, your then guarunteed that the part you buy is of good enough quality, and the price is no more expensive than at a factor's.


Gareth

That must be the same gasket with "pink" silcone that MG-Rover still supply you with when you buy a genuine set now.
And if you buy a Payen "Non Genuine" one you even get the modified Silcone bead layout and the modified steel locating dowels. (as opposed to the plastic ones).

There is one thing we both agree on though!!
The majority of MDI head gasket failures i have seen are down to no/lack of anti-freeze used in the coolant causing the "fire ring" to corrode and blow across into the water jacket.
You can usually tell how well its been looked after/strength of anti-freeze used- by the mucky brown water/corrosion that can be seen in the water ways.
Biglad

[F 447]

:confused: ;) :D Thank you both, for your in depth help and information;)

[E_T_V]

The best gaskets are annealed copper, or asbestos fibre between two layers of copper. Unfortunatly they are expensive to make and thats why we end up with crappy paper gaskets :(

[J199 HHG]

You might also need a 15mm high-torque socket to get the head bolts off. You'll probably split a normal one.

Check you can remove the glow-plugs when you have the head off - they can be a real bind if they're seized up.

[F 447]

:eek: My local Rover dealer wanted £22.70 + VAT for Head gasket, so ordered a Payen one for £18.75. I know Payen are good quality but don't know what they are made of, yet.
15mm High torque socket - OK will have to get one.
Is it necessary to take injectors out? or can I get away without taking them out?
Also, apparently Rover don't do the engine locking kit any more, and I could not get 6.75mm drill bits. So I did some sums and if right 1/4" drill bits are 0.000612906 of a milimetre smaller than 6.75mm drill bit. Am I correct? if not please let me know. How accurate have these drill bits got to be?
Thanks for all your help and info. - Steve.

[E_T_V]

1/4 of an inch is 6.35mm but I'd reckon that is accurate enough, as they are only to prevent the bits from turning more than half a tooth either way on the cambelt aren't they which is more than 0.5mm :D

[F 447]

:D :confused: Oh ummmmmmm, yes got confused trying to convert metric into imperial and back, must have been doing it the hard way, Had worked out that I needed 17/64" drill bit to get closest to 6.75mm.
Perhaps I'd better get 6.5mm ones then a little closer.

[BIGLAD]

Originally posted by F 447
:eek: My local Rover dealer wanted £22.70 + VAT for Head gasket, so ordered a Payen one for £18.75. I know Payen are good quality but don't know what they are made of, yet.
15mm High torque socket - OK will have to get one.
Is it necessary to take injectors out? or can I get away without taking them out?
Also, apparently Rover don't do the engine locking kit any more, and I could not get 6.75mm drill bits. So I did some sums and if right 1/4" drill bits are 0.000612906 of a milimetre smaller than 6.75mm drill bit. Am I correct? if not please let me know. How accurate have these drill bits got to be?
Thanks for all your help and info. - Steve.

If you are planning to get the head skimmed then slacken the injector clamp bolts/injectors and glow plugs while the head is on. Sometimes these can really tight. The difference between the metal on the components and the alloy head.
Because the head is flat these components need to come out before the head can be skimmed.
You can get a timing pin kit from companies like Draper etc. I think mine cost between £10-12. It does the Prima and also Pug/Citreon 1700/1900cc - 205,309,405,306 etc etc and Rover 218/418. Also the 1400/1500 Pug engine 106,saxo,AX, Rover Metro/100 etc.
Thanks
Biglad.

[F 447]

Draper do one, great, I'll try and get one tomorrow. I'm hoping to get away without the head being skimmed. I hope it isn't cracked either. What sort of experiences have you blokes had with having to skim the head and or cracking of the head?

[MGTurbo]

Apparantly, these heads have known to crack and/or corrode.

However, there wasnt any cracks in mine despite being driven for 1500 miles with the gasket blowing, only minor corrosion in one area which wasnt bad enough for it to be skimmed. I did post pictures at the time but no-one showed any interest, it may be worthwhile doing a search.

I didn't have the time to get the head skimmed but it's not expensive so try and get it done.

One other point, on re-assembly make sure the bolts are 100% free of any dirt and likewise the threads in the block, i used carb cleaner and compressed air, once the bolts were cleaned with a wire brush i used a light weight oil on the threads, this meant the head bolts screwed in freely and helps with the torquing up process.

Gareth

[F 447]

;) Thanks Gareth. Its not so much the expense of getting it skimmed, its taking the head apart and getting it to a engineering place, to get it done that's the problem. I have would have to go and buy some more more tools that I can't afford at present. So fingers crossed.
Should have a waterpump turning up tomorrow. Steve.