Spring Project...

[SimonR]

Chaps

I'm considering a major spring project with my 1.6 VP Auto.

I've been looking for some time now for the kit to make it manual rather than auto and am beginning to wonder if I'll ever find the car I need. The chances of finding a 1.6 manual with PAS in bad enough condition to justify raiding it for parts seems remote to me.

However, I've just been offered a 1990 MG 2.0i with very good mechanicals but shot bodywork.

I guess you can see where I'm going with this...

I know it would be a case of removing the engine, gearbox, fuel system and front suspension, which doesn't bother me at all but what else would need to be moved? I'm guessing that the engine bay loom has to be taken too, so would the 2.0i loom plug into the 1.6 multiplugs, meaning it's not a dash-out job?

It would give me the chance to rust-proof and re-bush the whole thing before re-fitting and at the end of it I'd have exactly what I've always wanted - a car that looks like an oldmanmobile but goes like stink. The Maestro VP should have been a 2.0 from the start.

There would also be a sizeable amount of MG parts available to M&MOC members who wanted them, oh, and a very low mileage 1.6 S-Series engine with all late-spec modifications.

The only other problem is that the donor car doesn't have PAS. How big a job is it to upgrade a 2.Oi MG to PAS?

Cheers...

[steve smith]

well a few other things u will need are the pedal box from the mg all the gear linkages front hubs and discs exhaust the fuel tank u will need to add a fuel return line in as the 1.6 doesnt need it. the worst part is getting the pedal box in and out with the dash still in so the dash will have to come out if u want any more infor and help pm me or give me a call as i have done a conversion from auto to manual but mines with a differance.

[Russ]

Hi Simon
First off,thankyou for the dash face it arrived this morning.
Its a big old job, as I reccon the loom has to changed so the dash will have to come out, also you'll need to change the fuel tank and install a pump at the rear.
The PAS is not that big a job if the engines out and you install all the pipe work ,you will need a bracket to mount your pump on the o series and the flexi hoses may be different,im not sure though if the racks for autos are different ,but i think it only affects the vw box varients.
If you dont want to go to the trouble of ripping the dash out why not consider convering the efi engine to run on a carb. I saw an inlet manifold in the scrap yard the other day but didnt take too much notice as to if it were an O or S series one.
Hope this helps
Russ

[D87 SMW]

I'm afraid I can't help much with the technicalities here but I will agree that the Vanden Plas should've been available with the 2.0 engine. I take it you'd be going with the EFi rather than the carb version, though?

[G51 NAV]

I think that's a bloody excellent idea. I know the wiring-loom's different on the MG cars but if you're being given a complete car to strip at your leisure, just about everything you need will be at your fingertips :)

I bet one of the technical bods like Dan will surely post to give you the exact details, but with your S-series VP already having PAS, I wouldn't have thought there'd be much extra you need from the PAS-side of things that you don't already have?

O-series VP Maestro from the factory...hmmm, I see where you're coming from and as elitist as this sounds (I'll apologise in advance :laugh:) one of the great things I like about the MG Maestro EFi/2.0i/Turbo is that the engine never appeared in a 'lesser' Austin car, giving it one less reason to be labelled as just 'badge-engineered'. Not so with the Metro and Monty, nor any other MG saloon before or since.

[Stephen G]

Thats a Great project Simon. I agree the Vanden Plas should have been a 2.0 as well as the Other Top of the Range Maestro's including the Mayfair etc.

[SimonR]

Thanks for all your replies, chaps. I'll continue to look into the possibility.

On the 1.6 manual Maestro with PAS the steering rack has a mounting bracket for the gearbox selector rods to attach to. Is this the same on an am MG 2.0i? I'm wondering if I can keep my 1.6 PAS rack. If so then upgrading the setup to PAS would probably be a lot easier because I'd not need to source and remove another PAS rack.

It's a horrible job :-(

[threelitre]

Great idea - the EFi is an excellent car, not only fast, but also comfy and relaxed if you want to. The wiring loom changes will most likely extend into the cabin, as the EFi has 2 ECUs - the ignition ECU in the engine bay, the fuel injection ECU behind the dashboard (or below...) . So even if your VP is the 1.6 version that features both ECU's it can be assumed that the EFi one needs quite a bit different wiring to the SU-carb one only controlling idle and choke.

Depending on gear ratios it is most likely that the instrument cluster will need to be changed over too (including the speedo cable).

While changing the fuel tank you can also try to add the rear ARB from the MG, although that's surely optional.

Oh - don't change it to a carb, please ;)

Regards,

Alexander

Edit: Our EFi does not have PAS, not a problem actually, but much better feel in fast bendy bits.

[Beaker]

For the hassle of putting an EFi in then I would jut T16 turbo it.

[D87 SMW]

I'd much rather 'keep it in the family' and use Maestro/Montego engines.

[Simon]

Given the wiring from the efi is intact, it is easy to integrate into your existing loom, and for that to take place, the dash will need to come out. Wow, such a hard job...:laugh: Your existing PAS rack can stay, apart from the linkage bracket it will be identical in kind and principle. The Honda box has an entirely different change mechanism so swap out from the efi. Keep the efi system, for the sake of power, economy and driveability. You will need a silver efi badge for the rear as fitted to Rover 216 efi models. Apart from that, the conversion will be straight forward if all parts required from the donor are in good condition. Needless to say, if you want a hand, then just ask...
Oh yes, instruments would probably be required too, speedo cable, new clutch cable and a chat with your insurance company;)

[steve smith]

and what is wrong with a carb vp? i have one its great

[G51 NAV]

and what is wrong with a carb vp? i have one its great
When I was a little lad, I thought our black and white telly was great until my dad rented a colour one. Suddenly there was no going back.

[SimonR]

Given the wiring from the efi is intact, it is easy to integrate into your existing loom, and for that to take place, the dash will need to come out. Wow, such a hard job...


Ah - so you reckon it's not a case of hoiking all the wiring out of the MG and putting it into the VP? I guess you're available, have soldering iron and will travel?!!


Your existing PAS rack can stay, apart from the linkage bracket it will be identical in kind and principle. The Honda box has an entirely different change mechanism so swap out from the efi.

Aha - so to fit PAS to the EFI I can keep the original rack because the Honda box doesn't require anything on the steering rack...

What's required to run a PAS pump off the EFi engine? some kind of bracketry I suppose. Do you reckon I can use the 1.6 PAS pump and pipes?



Keep the efi system, for the sake of power, economy and driveability. You will need a silver efi badge for the rear as fitted to Rover 216 efi models.


Yeah - I like te idea of keeping the EFi. Fuel injection is the way forward although I will be sad to say good bye to the SU carb - I've been topping up Maestro dashpots for 10 years now ;-) And yes, you're right - I need some kind of badging for the back praps a simple EFi badge will suffice.


Apart from that, the conversion will be straight forward if all parts required from the donor are in good condition. Needless to say, if you want a hand, then just ask...


Cheers, Heapo. As always there's curry and real ale in it for you - oh and a drive of the first ever Maestro VP 2.0 EFi, hehehe.


And a few replies to the rest of the people who were kind enough to answer:

Lindz/ Steve W: I want to keep it original in a funny kind of way. It'll still be a Maestro from the Austin Rover stable, but built as it should have been from the start. I always saw the VP as a long-legged tourer that should be relaxing to drive - not a screaming banshee that fries its passengers legs (believe me - I've experienced it and so has the missus who now makes me go on long journeys in a Rover 214 of all things..!)

Alex: How much difference does the rear ARB make to the handling / ride?

Steve S: Thanks for that info - yeah I shall probably be in touch about it. It's great to know that there's someone who's done an auto->manual conversion before.

That's all for now folks...

[threelitre]

Alex: How much difference does the rear ARB make to the handling / ride?


Simon,

nothing too big if you're not going for it on the 'ring. Compared to my 1.3, which uses the front ARB from a Montego TD and Monroe Sensatrac dampers, the EFi is actually more comfy - quite noticeably! The rear ARB shows at high cornering speeds (unlike the front one, which shows immediatly when leaving the straight ahead line) and seems to make the car feel more predictable. Even if this includes the ability to go skidding over all 4 wheels :cool:

Being a VP you'll not need the rear ARB I think ;)

Regards,

Alexander

[henocsr]

A big job ahead, just like me really. The best thing to do is swap every thing overfrom the EFi to the 1.6. Including the suspension as the EFi had different springs due to being a bit heavier.

I am making a 1.3 into a o series MG Turbo at the moment, and it is going well.

Good luck with your project, i do have some PAS bits for an o series as i am having manaul steering as mentioned earier it has more feel, though i am making a sports car and you are making a tourer.

[John S]

...though i am making a sports car and you are making a tourer....

Make sure it's boosting to at least 11psi. My turbo isn't *that* quick, though having said that I've not plumbed in the boost gauge yet. This is an interesting venture anyway. You never know, perhaps an old untouched EFi unit might perform just as well as a brand new 1.6, lol (just joking).

[Simon]

Thinking about it, there is no reason why the whole efi loom cannot be swapped over wholesale. I must have been having a senior moment earlier!

[SimonR]

Thinking about it, there is no reason why the whole efi loom cannot be swapped over wholesale. I must have been having a senior moment earlier!

Aha - right, well that's easy enough then. I could upgrade all the speaker and headunit powersupplies at the same time - kind of makes sense to do so if the carpets, seats, etc are out.

I have one other thing to say: Digidash!

[Simon]

Digidash is fine, you know about them more than I do especially integrating the lady. The important thing is to keep the wiring neat and fully integrated. Create a wish list of electrical mods, too because if the loom is coming out it makes sense (and saves time) to incorporate them at that stage. I'm getting excited about this project - and it's not even my car! :)

[Simon]

Oh yes and I've also just thought of something else: you will need the vented brake discs and calipers from the donor. The PAS pump is different on the O series compared to the S series, but I think all O series later model MM engines share the same pump and bracketry, and they crop up on ebay from time to time. What is the donor's 'zorst like?

[SimonR]

Digidash is fine, you know about them more than I do especially integrating the lady. The important thing is to keep the wiring neat and fully integrated. Create a wish list of electrical mods, too because if the loom is coming out it makes sense (and saves time) to incorporate them at that stage. I'm getting excited about this project - and it's not even my car!

Yeah - I thought I had a transducer for the 2.0L on its way but I don't think I have now - need to check the EPC. So maybe the digi dash is a no-go :-(

Electrical mods-wise I have a list!

1. Electric sunroof wiring (got the kit)
2. MGF rear-view mirror (got it!)
3. up-rated audio wiring (speakers and power supply)
4. tailgate-mounted DAB aerial (goes through the glass)
5. Wiring for subwoofer



Oh yes and I've also just thought of something else: you will need the vented brake discs and calipers from the donor. The PAS pump is different on the O series compared to the S series, but I think all O series later model MM engines share the same pump and bracketry, and they crop up on ebay from time to time. What is the donor's 'zorst like?

Yeah - my plan is to drop the MG's front suspension / hubs / driveshafts etc off, re-bush and hamerite them prior to fitting them to my car. The donor car has just had new discs and pads fitted :D

Do you know if the Rack that's in my S-Series Auto will be OK for use with an O-Series car? I've got an offer of O-Series PAS parts from a kind forum user so I'll see what's on offer but at the very least I guess I'll need pump, pipes, belt and brackets.

Not sure exactly what the exhaust is like but I know that the car comes with a new spare back-box so at the worst I'll have to buy the other bits...

Yeah, I'm getting excited, too! I'm hopefully picking up the donor car on 29th March so can I book you for a happy weekend's Maestroing sometime soon after that?!

Cheers!!

[Russ]

The digi dash conversion is quite easy,all you need for the speedo is a speed tranducer from an 820. Your dash face is now in use and I have a working trip computer and Niccolette ranting at me.

There a few pumps in the scrapyard at fakenham,hes got a TD estate,a cluman diesel and a van full of MM bits. Not that far from you either

Russ

[SimonR]

The digi dash conversion is quite easy,all you need for the speedo is a speed tranducer from an 820. Your dash face is now in use and I have a working trip computer and Niccolette ranting at me.

There a few pumps in the scrapyard at fakenham,hes got a TD estate,a cluman diesel and a van full of MM bits. Not that far from you either

Russ


Ooooooh Cheers for that, Russ!

That's really interesting - I was wondering about the R820 - I had heard that using one of those transducers makes the speedo read double? Is that poppycock?

If you don't mind I'll pick your brain about the Digidash conversion if I can't work it out - there are three problems that I can't see a way past until I start:

1) How do you get Nicollette speaking through the speakers if you don't use a standard common-groud Maestro mark 1 loom? - I intend to run high-quality Hi-Fi speaker wires to the four speakers.

2) Speed reading double

3) Fuel flow transducer on an EFI car. Is it possible?!

Do you have the conact details for the scrapper in Fakenham? It's fairly close to me and there are a few bits that I could well do with as well as a R820 transducer!

If you've got a phone number I'll call them to make sure they don't bin the cars.

Cheers!

PS - I'm glad to hear that your dash is working and that the facia was useful to you - I'd been holding onto it, waiting for some one to need one!

[E_T_V]

1. A couple of options. The easiest is to use the telephone input on a modern radio. Other options are to hide a seperate speaker for the speaker, or patch her into the standard speaker system and add an extra earth to the synthesizer so it doesn't sound like a darlek

2. EFI speedo sender will make it read double. 820 one will make it read correctly.

3. Yes it is do-able. The EFI ecu gives a fuel used signal to the dash so that it can work out the fuel used.

[SimonR]

1. A couple of options. The easiest is to use the telephone input on a modern radio. Other options are to hide a seperate speaker for the speaker, or patch her into the standard speaker system and add an extra earth to the synthesizer so it doesn't sound like a darlek

2. EFI speedo sender will make it read double. 820 one will make it read correctly.

3. Yes it is do-able. The EFI ecu gives a fuel used signal to the dash so that it can work out the fuel used.


Hey Dan - thanks for your answers, most interesting as always!

Here's what I was thinking:

1. yeah - I was going to use the ATT input on the headunit to attenuate the sound but I don't know how to wire the voice synthesis relay so that I get announcements but don't compromise sound quality. It would be nice to have the voice synth through all four speakers if possible, too.

2. Thanks for that confirmation!

3. Ooooooh! Do you know any more about this? I was assuming that it was imposible and was only asking to play devil's advocate. I suppose that some conversion of the signal would be needed?

I'm really getting into this project now!

[Russ]

Basicly add a wire from the black/red wire at the ecu to the blank pin on the rh side of the dash loom.
The trip computer has 2 wires coming from its circuit board,the one marked F/F needs connecting to pin 8 on the fuel ecu,it should be empty on yours and the other wire marked 12v F/F needs removing.
Connect the speed transucer wires, Black/red to the Efis Black/red the green wire to the other one of the efis wires and dont connect the earth,it reads nowt if you do!

The scrapyard hasnt got an 820 speed probe any more :rolleyes: ive got it.
It has an 827 though im not sure these are the same.
The yards number is 01328 823 258 though at this time of year hes only open Sat afternoons and Sunday mornings. I reccon his MMs are long term residents my dash had been in there over 10yrs he said. He did say hes got an efi engine stored up.

Im interested to know about clearing Niccolette,she does sound a bit darlecy but she sounded the same in my 1600 . Ive wired her through the front speaker +s but she only comes out of the drivers one. Sounds clear though,as at first I tried a seperate speaker and she sounded awful.

Cheers

Russ

[Russ]

The other thing I added to mine was the floodlights from the clock dash if you use the bulb and wire and connect it to the temp or fuel light you can use your dimmer to dim the lights,I havnt altered the wiring so you can dim the actual display as it looked fuzy on my 1600. The floodlights make the dash look less stark at night and you can see the graphics on the dash as in a normal one.

[SimonR]

Hey - thanks for that reply, Russ!

I'm late for work at the moment so I'll rad it properly a bit later on....

[SimonR]

The digi dash conversion is quite easy,all you need for the speedo is a speed tranducer from an 820.


Russ,

I'm being offered a 3 pin transducer from an 820 gearbox, part no YBE 100520.
Is that the right thing?

I meant to ask whether it makes a difference whether the car is auto or manual....

Cheers!

[E_T_V]

It needs to be a manual, but otherwise yes that is the speedo sender. Its 3 pin but you only use two of the pins and leave the 3rd (earth?) disconnected.

[SimonR]

Thanks all for your help so far.

The first few bits have arrived for this project. I got the speedo transducer and sub-woofer today ready to go onto the car.

T' bird and I are collecting the MG on the 29th March and the work starts the weekend after.

I'm sure lots of photos and questions will follow.

Oh, I've also spoken to my insurance and they will charge me between £100 and £120 for the increased performance once the conversion is done. It's calculated on a percentage increase in power. I'm guessing it'll be about +30% - has anyone got the actual figure (1.6 S-Series to 2.0EFI)?

Get your soldering iron out Mr. Heap!!!

[Russ]

Hi Simon

its 86bhp to 115bhp which is about 35% I recon its def more than 30%

Russ

[SimonR]

Cheers Russ - yeah I make it 33.7%. I just didn't know the actual bhp figures for both engines.

So it'll be £120 extra on the insurance - not too bad!

[Simon]

Soldering iron and monkey wrench at the ready!

[B18 GPC]

ive an engine crane at the unit in somersham mate.. if you need it.. il drop it over on trailer and transit given some notice!

[SimonR]

ive an engine crane at the unit in somersham mate.. if you need it.. il drop it over on trailer and transit given some notice!

That's geat Graham- thanks muchly. We'll sort soething out!!

I went to collect the MG this weekend, the missus and I took the train to Middlesborough where the deal was struck and I drove the car home.

I've never driven a 2.0EFI before (the only other 2-litre Maestro I've driven was the Canley Tickford Prototype, courtesy of Mr. Keith Adams) and was very pleasantly surprised by its performance. So much more torque than a 1.6 and just generally not found to be lacking in any of the areas where the 1.6 is. I think I'm going to like the converted car a lot.

The donor car is a classic case of late Maestro syndrome - every panel is ragged with rust, especially the rear arches, sills, doors and all seams. Such a pity that they go like that but I've no problem with breaking this car as it's certainly never going to get another MoT.

I've got a few things to do in preparation for the work to start next week, but mostly I'm ready to go I think. More information to follow, as well as lots of inane questions I'd have thought...

[G51 NAV]

I've never driven a 2.0EFI before (the only other 2-litre Maestro I've driven was the Canley Tickford Prototype, courtesy of Mr. Keith Adams) and was very pleasantly surprised by its performance. So much more torque than a 1.6 and just generally not found to be lacking in any of the areas where the 1.6 is. I think I'm going to like the converted car a lot.
Have a speak with Richard Smith (e692wtt) who had is first ever drive in an MG Maestro EFi - AND MG Turbo - last Monday ;) I understand he's recovering well and the nervous shakes have now stopped :laugh: They are a bit of a 'step up' when the fastest car you've ever driven before is a 1.6 Montego.

The donor car is a classic case of late Maestro syndrome - every panel is ragged with rust, especially the rear arches, sills, doors and all seams. Such a pity that they go like that but I've no problem with breaking this car as it's certainly never going to get another MoT.
So sad but all too common :( At least much of it will live on in your converted Austin: what you're doing is surely exemplifying right there the real meaning of re-using and re-cycling :cool: If it's not, then I don't know what is!

I guess by now you'll have discovered just how different the MG versions are to the Austins. Truly, just about the only thing they shared were the bodyshell, bolt-on panels, some of the interior and the ancillary components (lamps, wipers, etc), This means to make a (safe) and effective mechanical and electrical conversion, just about everything else needs to be moved across.

Critics who called MG Maestros "badge engineered Austins" would benefit from looking at actually how much work is involved to turn one "into an MG". I'd wager it's far, far more work than was needed to make any other MG saloon, before or since.

[SimonR]

IT's OUT!

Today's gone well, Maestro-wise.

My father and I started strippping out the MG this morning and the engine's now out, ready for us to get the gearbox off and change the clutch. There were a few moments where we got stuck, but thanks mainly to this forum and a few key people on it we got past those.

Probably the worst was rounding off one of the nuts on the exhaust manifold /downpipe joint then succeeding to hammer a 12mm socket onto it, only to sheer off the stud. Damn it!

Oh well, it'll drill out.

I'm going to spend some time this evening getting the interior out of the car ready to remove the loom tomorrow. There are a few pictures of the work in progress and I'll probably post those up later on.

I am very surprised by how rusty this car is. There are holes in the bodywork everywhere. The sills are probably the worst - I put my hand through them in several places, but there are also holes all over the front of the car, where the wings bolt on. Very sad to see :-(

More later on....

[G51 NAV]

Good to hear the stripping is off to a good start. Strange how it should be suffering so much corrosion at the front: very much one a Maestro's stronger areas.

[henocsr]

good luck with it, you have a lot of work ahead. Dont forget the fuel lines will need to be swapped and the tank too. Most likely the clips for the lines under the car will break when removed, the club have some....................though i am still waiting for my request to be acknowledged.

[SimonR]

Ladies and Gents,

The project is now in its second weekend and I thought it was time for a couple of photos.

The MG is completely stripped to a bare shell and the VP is on its way to being in the same condition!! We've got the interior out and also the engine's almost ready to be lifted out.

The 2.0 Engine is having a clutch change this afternoon and may even make it into the engine bay before the curry arrives ;-)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/Wonkey_Donkey/Maestro/MG%20into%20DRY/IMG_0245.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/Wonkey_Donkey/Maestro/MG%20into%20DRY/IMG_0244.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/Wonkey_Donkey/Maestro/MG%20into%20DRY/IMG_0242.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/Wonkey_Donkey/Maestro/MG%20into%20DRY/IMG_0241.jpg

[D87 SMW]

Good work there, Simon.

[Beaker]

How come you have stripped the VP down I thought you were just swapping the engine?

[SimonR]

The VP is being stripped because we've had to replace the loom for the EFI one.

However it's also an opportunity to clean everything, check for corrosion and re-wire the audio system. I'm very happy to announce that we found no rust at all and that the floor is as shiney as Simon Heap's head throughout!!

The engine is now out of the VP and we're ready to stick the new loom in.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/Wonkey_Donkey/Maestro/MG%20into%20DRY/IMG_0250.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/Wonkey_Donkey/Maestro/MG%20into%20DRY/IMG_0249.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/Wonkey_Donkey/Maestro/MG%20into%20DRY/IMG_0252.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/Wonkey_Donkey/Maestro/MG%20into%20DRY/IMG_0251.jpg

[Russ]

Are you going to give the O series a birthday ie paint and pollish before putting it in?

Russ

[SimonR]

Are you going to give the O series a birthday ie paint and pollish before putting it in?


Hi Russ,

Well I wasn't planning to - in the interests of speed I was going to leave it as is.

However, I was struck down by the lurgi yesterday and was reduced to watching while Simon H fitted the new loom to the VP. I may well have time to paint the bock before sticking it into the car now.

What's the best paint to use? I remember someone talking about engine enamel in another thread. I guess wire-brushing all the crud away is enough preparation - or would I need some kind of base-coat?

I'm hopefully going to feel better pretty soon and be able to work on it a couple of evenings this week.

[D87 SMW]

What's the best paint to use? I remember someone talking about engine enamel in another thread. I guess wire-brushing all the crud away is enough preparation - or would I need some kind of base-coat?

I'm hopefully going to feel better pretty soon and be able to work on it a couple of evenings this week.

What I did with mine was degrease the whole lot with normal engine degreaser, scrape any excess crud off with a screwdriver, get rid of any loose dust etc. then slap some black engine lacquer on the block, red lacquer on the head.

After it has been running at high temps. for a while the red is starting to show slight bubbling, it looks as if it's little specs of water! It isn't bad at all, though. Definitely worth doing while it's out. :)

[SimonR]

Good old Marshall Rover Parts!

While I've been trying to get better after falling ill this weekend I've taken the opportunity to buy a few parts that I needed for the project.

My girlfriend and I spent a long time on Sunday trying to find a replacement exhaust manifold stud. Would you believe that no where in Cambridge stocks them? I tried all the motorfactors, and also several tyre/exhaust places.

So anyway, on Monday I telephoned Rover Parts and not only did they have the studs but they also had a replacement bottom clamp for the gear change assembly as the original was almost rusted away.

I'm so used to getting told that the items I'm after are NLA that I didn't think to try them....

Good Work....

[Russ]

Hi Simon,apparently the best paint to use is frosts ford red. The mg red which is on my efi is too dark and the red engine lacquer which is on my metro dries pink!

Hope your feeling better

Russ

[Russ]

Just looking at the pics, are you tempted to see if you can find an aircon unit that will fit somewhere in the heater box while its all stipped out?

Russ

[B18 GPC]

Youl have to let us know when project completo!..

Engine crane has its jobs lined up!

Also simon... how do you suppose were going to get the shell out of the driveway.. ? im not sure the transit and trailer will make it out there..

*After mastering getting it in.. you saw my efforts with the transit alone getting out!!*

[SimonR]

Just looking at the pics, are you tempted to see if you can find an aircon unit that will fit somewhere in the heater box while its all stipped out?


Hah - yeah, that would be nice but at the moment it's a step too far. Maybe in phase two, which will be when we install the digidash and other upgrades.

When all the parts were stripped out of the MG I soon realised that it's enough of a job to get it all put back on the VP properly so the project became a two-stage affair.

Anyway, today I was feeling better so I managed to nip over to the car and get the fuel system up together. My father had been doing a bit of work on it in my absence - the main bit was remaking the return fuel pipe as the original was too rusted to re-use. A bit of 8mm copper pipe, some olives, some solder and a lot of skill won the day.

When I left there tonight the fuel system was back in working condition and the 1.6 exhaust was removed, to make way for the bigger barry-ier 2.0 one.

The engine's due to be put back in on Saturday morning - it will be a great relief as much for Graham as me as he's very kindly loaned me the engine crane for about twice as long as I said I needed it...

Cheers Graham ;-)

[B18 GPC]

The engine's due to be put back in on Saturday morning - it will be a great relief as much for Graham as me as he's very kindly loaned me the engine crane for about twice as long as I said I needed it...

Cheers Graham ;-)


Not a worry mate - the mini was put on hold , but that should be go again shortly! tow bar now on bmw so should be able to get that down your dads driveway!

[Russ]

Before you put the dash back it maybe worth putting in the extra wires for the digi dash. Black/red from instrument panel to ecu speed input. Pink and white, trip computer to door switch and grey /yellow Trip computer to ecu.

Russ

[C191JOE]

Youl have to let us know when project completo!..

Engine crane has its jobs lined up!

Also simon... how do you suppose were going to get the shell out of the driveway.. ? im not sure the transit and trailer will make it out there..

*After mastering getting it in.. you saw my efforts with the transit alone getting out!!*

Joe has got a tow bar. I thought we might simply get the shell to the ground, on its roof even and sort of tow/slide it down the drive and then onto trailer!

[steve smith]

seems to be going well this does i had a letter through from dvla about the changes i have done to my vp they want doucuments from the gargae that did it for me ( i did it) with engine number and engine cc and fuel type or an engineers report from aa or rac i have gone one better and got my local gagare to do this for me on headed note paper just so that they can change the taxation class of the car let the fun begin

[SimonR]

Mr. Orrell,

Some time ago you wrote:


I guess by now you'll have discovered just how different the MG versions are to the Austins. Truly, just about the only thing they shared were the bodyshell, bolt-on panels, some of the interior and the ancillary components (lamps, wipers, etc), This means to make a (safe) and effective mechanical and electrical conversion, just about everything else needs to be moved across.

Critics who called MG Maestros "badge engineered Austins" would benefit from looking at actually how much work is involved to turn one "into an MG". I'd wager it's far, far more work than was needed to make any other MG saloon, before or since.

At the time I thought you were just blowing the MG's trumpet, but how right you are!!! Having spent a few weeks thinking about and doing this conversion, and being the kind of person to do it properly, I can confirm that there are loads of differences in almost every aspect between the MG and my 1.6 VP car.

As I type this, the underneath of DRY is nearly completely converted - but it's been quite a big job. The following needed to be replaced / added:

Rear Antiroll bar
Rear Shocks
Fuel Tank
Fuel Pump + Wiring
Return Fuel Line (made by my father as the original was rusted!)
Exhaust system
Heat shield (two lengths of it on the MG, both different to the one on the VP)
Front Subframe+Antiroll Bar
Front Shocks
Front hubs
Gear Change Mechanism
Various Brackets to hold that lot in place!
Anyway, it's all reinstated as it was on the MG and the underside of DRY is now thoroughly waxoyled so it won't rust in the future.

Tomorrow we're starting by fitting the MG subframe, hubs, and front shocks before getting the 2.0 EFi engine lowered in. Hopefully by the end of tomorrow the mechanicals will be pretty much sorted and we'll be onto the niggly things like fitting the speedo/clutch/accellerator cables to the pedal box...

For the first time ever, DRY has a manual gear selector and a clutch pedal! Yay!

There's also the small matter of the interior to get back in!

Before you put the dash back it maybe worth putting in the extra wires for the digi dash. Black/red from instrument panel to ecu speed input. Pink and white, trip computer to door switch and grey /yellow Trip computer to ecu.


Hi Russ, yeah - that's not a bad idea, is it? If there's time then I'll certainly sort that out, too. Mind you, if I don't do it now, Simon Heap and I will be undertaking phase 2 (DigiDash, DAB aerial Subwoofer etc) later this year and the dash'll have to come out again for that ;-)...

[SimonR]

I don't know if anyone's still interested - but incase you are, here's this evening's update.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/Wonkey_Donkey/Maestro/MG%20into%20DRY/IMG_0280.jpg

The engine's in, as it most of the rest of the under-bonnet gubbins. My father and I worked pretty much all weekend to get it all swapped over. We had fun and games with the PAS pipes because neither of us has ever seen an O-Series PAS setup - but it's in place now.

All that's left to do now is the tidying up - going round the front of the car with a torque wrench, changing the engine/gearbox oil, filling up the PAS system, comissioning the brakes etc. Oh, and fitting the interior!

I reckon it'll be driveable by next Sunday....

[G51 NAV]

Glad to see some great progress being made. No, I was not just 'blowing the MGs trumpet': I have appreciation of both the Austins and the MGs, and enough knowledge of each to know that those who especially call MG Maestro EFi's "badge-engineered Austins" are kidding themselves at the amount of work actually involved to convert one to the other. As you've found out it most definitely was not just a case of tossing a coin at the end of the production-line to see which front grille it got...

Keep up the progress-pics :cool:

[e692wtt]

seems to be going well this does i had a letter through from dvla about the changes i have done to my vp they want doucuments from the gargae that did it for me ( i did it) with engine number and engine cc and fuel type or an engineers report from aa or rac i have gone one better and got my local gagare to do this for me on headed note paper just so that they can change the taxation class of the car let the fun begin

Steve,

what the DVLA are suggesting will be just a formality. It's routine that proof of the engine change is provided by somebody 'official' :) , and you've provided that. They may want to send one of their inspectors out to see the car and check it over, but that will be just a formality as any inspector worth their salt will know what an A-series with VW 'box looks like ;) .

Blimey, if I can register a left hand drive MG Maestro 1600 with only one of the two 'official' (note inverted commas :rolleyes: ) German registration documents (the lady behind the desk filled in a form for me stating that the fahrzeugschein was never provided and asked me to sign it, and that was the end of the matter), and without them wanting to inspect the car... you don't need to worry at all :) . It's all a lot more worrying beforehand than the actual reality - and you'll drive away thinking "That was easy, blimey!"

Do I get points for starting and finishing the previous paragraph with the same word?? :laugh:

[Simon]

Wow! Fancy some more enfaddlement soon, SR?

[SimonR]

Wow! Fancy some more enfaddlement soon, SR?

Mr. Heap!

Yeah, most certainly, what a good idea!!

I'm eager to get the car up and running as it is so that I can be sure that everything's as it should be, then we can work on the mods to the electrics.

I reckon that it'll be back on the road by Sunday next weekend, and if so I'll nip it over to a tyre place to get the wheels aligned and tyres swapped over.

you'll be pleased to know that all the cables went back on the pedal box just as they should be, but I'm slightly concerned about the clutch pedal because it seems to have a lot of travel before it engages. I'm hoping that it jus needs a little adjustment though as it seems to operate the lever on the gearbox OK.

We'll sort out a date soon for the upgrading to take place ;-)

[Oli]

Good work chaps, looking great:cool:

[D87 SMW]

Wow! Fancy some more enfaddlement soon, SR?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/F170/oohmatron-1.jpg

Seems to be moving more swiftly than my recent engine swap (Wish mine, too, was to something with so much poke :o ).

Good luck getting it all together and drivable. It's not always easy!

[SimonR]

Another quick little update for anyone still reading this thread:

IT LIVES!!! We put all the fluids in the engine this morning, put some fuel in the tank, connected the battery and after a short period of cranking, to get fuel around the system, it burst into life.

So we're nearly there. Just the gearbox oil, brakes and a general inspection to be done. Then it's off to the local tyre place to get the front wheels aligned and the tyres swapped round.

The EFi O-Series engine certainly idles better than a carbed S-Series!

[steve smith]

well done hope the rest goes well i felt like that when i got the vp running with its new engine

[talkingcars]

O-series VP Maestro from the factory...hmmm, I see where you're coming from and as elitist as this sounds (I'll apologise in advance :laugh:) one of the great things I like about the MG Maestro EFi/2.0i/Turbo is that the engine never appeared in a 'lesser' Austin car, giving it one less reason to be labelled as just 'badge-engineered'. Not so with the Metro and Monty, nor any other MG saloon before or since.

Qaulity project Simon (and dad).

The MGZS 180 has a 2.5 V6, the V6 Rover 45 is only a 2.0.
The Rover 75 has a 2.5 V6 but is only 177bhp against the 2.5 V6 MGZT at 190bhp.

I know that they are Rovers and not Austins but the later Maestros were Rover.

Also the Rovers and the MGZ's are very different despite the similar body.

Talking of ZS's, I noticed that the heater controls are the same as the late monty and maestro so I don't think it will be that hard to fit the controls, the condensor will fit in place of the maestro heater box and glove box.

James

P.S. Do you have any plans for the old VP parts, I might have a home for them or at least some of them being the engine, g/box, loom, steering rack and column. Pmail me.

[SimonR]

Cheers for the encouragement all!

Simon Heap, my girlfriend and I took the Maestro out for its first test drive this evening and I'm happy to report that it's almost right. It certainly pulls better than the 1.6 auto did.

There was a brief period of head scratching when the front brakes seemed to be binding so Simon H and I took one side apart and serviced it but as soon as the wheel was back on it was just as bad. In the end it turned out that it was my Chavvy MGF alloys binding on the larger MG calipers. As soon as that was discovered and the MG X-spokes were refitted for now, it was all systems go.

One minor problem we still have is that reverse is a but graunchy to engage. All the forward gears are fine but there is sometimes a grinding of gears when selecting reverse. The clutch is a new one that we fitted while the engine was out. Any ideas how to fix this?? - we've tried adjusting the clutch cable but haven't solved the problem yet.

It's a joy to drive now :D

Next Saturday Simon H is coming round again and we're going to sort some of the electrics out. Digidash, electric sunroof, interior lighting etc.

[G51 NAV]

Glad to see it's all working out eventuallyIn the end it turned out that it was my Chavvy MGF alloys binding on the larger MG calipers.It's common knowledge within MG Maestro/Montego community that you need 5mm spacers to get MGF wheels to clear the Maestro/Montego calipers. I hadn't spotted anywhere where you said you were going to fit MGF alloys or else I would have mentioned it.

[SimonR]

Glad to see it's all working out eventuallyIt's common knowledge within MG Maestro/Montego community that you need 5mm spacers to get MGF wheels to clear the Maestro/Montego calipers. I hadn't spotted anywhere where you said you were going to fit MGF alloys or else I would have mentioned it.

Hah! Cheers John - what foxed me was that the wheels fitted the VP when it was a 1.6 so I didn't think of it when we put the new hubs on. I live and learn!!

Where does one get 5mm spacers from?

[Beaker]

One minor problem we still have is that reverse is a but graunchy to engage. All the forward gears are fine but there is sometimes a grinding of gears when selecting reverse.

Sounds perfectly normal to me. PG1 gearboxes - you'll get used to it.

Try double-declutching before reverse or try fourth before reverse.

[G51 NAV]

Where does one get 5mm spacers from?there's usually loads on ebay

[henocsr]

Excellant work simon. i hope it drives as well as it looks. Very jealous for the cream leather in your car.

How was the speedo in the end, all working ok?

[SimonR]

DRY took its first proper journey yesterday - 6 miles back to Cambridge. Everything seems to be OK. A rubbing sound at the front turned out to be the wear sensor wiring that wasn't clipped on properly and I also found the oil pressure switch wire dangling in mid air. I remember plugging it in but it must have worked loose!

We're just off to fill 'er up for the first time since the engine swap then it's off for a bit of a drive to see how it goes.

This weekend will see phase two take place, so watch this space.

To address a few comments:

Ross - yeah, the speedo seems to be OK. It all connected up OK and I *think* it's reading correctly. I'll find out in a little while when I compare it to my Sat Nav. And, yeah, I like the beige leather too. It's rather unusual.

Linds - Aha I'll learn to live with it ;)

John - I may take a look on eBay but more likely is that I'll change my wheels for re-conned MG X-Spokes in the end. I've been advised that spacers aren't all that good an idea and think I prefer non-chav wheels anyway!!

That's all for now. Let's hope it gets to the petrol station - we put two gallons in the tank and I've driven it rather a lot since then....

[G51 NAV]

John - I may take a look on eBay but more likely is that I'll change my wheels for re-conned MG X-Spokes in the end. I've been advised that spacers aren't all that good an idea and think I prefer non-chav wheels anyway!!Wise man. There was a time where it seemed the world and his dog had retrofitted MGF wheels to their MG Maestro or MG Montego. 15"x6" cross-spokes wearing 195/50 rubber is "where it's at" imo, like the ones on JOE and my EFi. I just wish they weren't such a sod to clean. Having said that I have a soft-spot for six-spoke F wheels...

[C191JOE]

Halfords do a neat alloy cleaning brush £6.99 special offer at the moment.

[Stephen G]

I have a soft-spot for six-spoke F wheels...

Would that be the Same as Mine.


Congrats on Finishing the Conversion simon. Have you sent the Small package yet ;).

[talkingcars]

Wise man. There was a time where it seemed the world and his dog had retrofitted MGF wheels to their MG Maestro or MG Montego.

Personally I luv 'em. I dislike the cross spokes so much I got rid of most of them.

[Russ]

I got my metro turbo ones powder coated and was totally amazed ,if you hoze them at high pressure ALL the crap comes off them. Why arnt they coated like this from new?

Russ

[threelitre]

15"x6" cross-spokes wearing 195/50 rubber is "where it's at" imo, like the ones on JOE and my EFi. I just wish they weren't such a sod to clean.

Ha, the cross-spokes are easy to clean compared with the original cheese-greaters...

Am I alone in saying that the MG (or any Maestro) drives much nicer with 175/65 tyres? The steering has more feel and the car has much more straight line stability.

SimonR, I hope you enjoy your VP EFi (get that badge of a Rover 216...). Our MG EFi has given us 21 1/2 years of fun so far, with hardly any problems (apart a bit of rust).

Alexander

[G51 NAV]

Am I alone in saying that the MG (or any Maestro) drives much nicer with 175/65 tyres?it would depend in the wheels I guess. Not sure 175/65s would be such a good idea on my EFi's 15"x6". Neither am I a great fan of high-profile tyres: the side walls on the fronts invariably weaken through turning at slow speeds, which makes the steering heavy and the tyres bulge.

[threelitre]

Well, I thought of using appropriate 14in wheels of course. 185/65s as Montego TDs have are OK too, but softer than the smaller section 175/65s. Having driven Maestros and Montegos on wide, low profile tyres (15x6 or 15x6.5) I didn't like how they started to tramline on the slightest sight of road irregularities. The steering (no powersteering) also lost the good feel and started to feel rubbery and was very heavy to start with...

But it's surely a matter of taste - some people like lowered, stiff cars that I would think of being close to unuseable (example: BMW 320td compact with M-Sports suspension and wheels - aargh)...

Alexander

[Russ]

I depends a lot on what make the tyres are,my first MG had 175/65 perelli P8s and they were awful. I always used to change to 185/60s as in those days there was a big range in that size and a lot cheaper than the 175s Now its changed my current efi has 175s and handles superbly. I put it down to the fact that today loads of cars use 175/65 14s and tyres have been developed for newer 'safer' cars.

Russ

[snakestamper]

Would that be the Same as Mine.


Congrats on Finishing the Conversion simon. Have you sent the Small package yet ;).

Hello!

I'll reply on Si's behalf (hope he doesn't mind but he really should be at work anyway!) I think I know which small package you're expecting and we'll be parcelling it up tonight - sorry for the delay.

Cheers,

Cat

[threelitre]

Our MG EFi has been on Toyos (don't know which) since I can remember and this combination has been excellent. My 1.3 runs on MG cheesegraters also, but using Pirelli P4000, so far no complaints.

Alexander

[G51 NAV]

I kind of expected the worst when I put Eagle F1 195/50s on the 5.5J MG Turbo wheels. I was trying to source original-sized 185/55s but they were £HOW MUCH!? :eek: . Upto now I've no complaints, but I can definitely tell that the MG EFi handles better with the same sized tyres on 0.5"-wider wheels.But it's surely a matter of taste - some people like lowered, stiff cars that I would think of being close to unuseable (example: BMW 320td compact with M-Sports suspension and wheels - aargh)...

Alexander
Indeed. I have always praised the MG Maestro's standard set-up which imo offers an ideal balance of comfort vs handling. I really don't need the car to be able to go round traffic-islands at 50mph, and I have no longing for the suspension to be so stiff that when the car drives over a two-pence-coin I can tell whether it was heads or tails up.

[Stephen G]

Hello!

I'll reply on Si's behalf (hope he doesn't mind but he really should be at work anyway!) I think I know which small package you're expecting and we'll be parcelling it up tonight - sorry for the delay.

Cheers,

Cat

Thank you Very Much.

Got Loads of Things Coming this week for the Montego!!

[SimonR]

Let Phase 2 begin!

Simon Heap has turned up again and the soldering iron is on the go. Hopefully by the end of tomorrow DRY will have:Electric sunroof, digi dash (with working trip computer), stereo and a few other mods all wired up...

So it's dash out time again at my place ;-)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/Wonkey_Donkey/Maestro/MG%20into%20DRY/Maestro1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/Wonkey_Donkey/Maestro/MG%20into%20DRY/Maestro2.jpg

[Jonathan]

What a sight. Actually FRB and DRY look really good together.

I've also had my soldering iron on the go this afternoon, but the brand new 60W iron broke less than half way through resoldering my Sterling's fusebox :mad:

[G51 NAV]

You'll certainly have one special car after all that. Are you going to bother with any discrete EFi badging on the tailgate, or are you just going to lull unsuspecting chavs into thinking it's just a 1.6 automatic, before you floor it and disappear into the horizon :p

[snakestamper]

Well, after a weekend of sterling wiring efforts by Simon H and Simon R a small snagette was hit in terms of liberating the original speedo pinion to replace it with the digidash one (see the speedo pinion removal thread) and since then, weddings have stopped play, we're going to three in four weeks this month!

This weekend, however, with the paperwork from the DVLA acknowledging the engine upgrade having arrived safely and with no hassle involved, Si and I returned to his place to remove the dash from the downstairs toilet and put it back into DRY. This was my first full on experience of Maestro-faddling and I escaped with only a few scratches and discovered that the easiest way to re-connect multiplugs was to lie in the passenger footwell with my legs over the back of the passenger seat!

Si, in the meantime filed out the old speedo pinion collar so that it could be re-fitted after he had previously removed it......er.....enthusiastically :rolleyes: with mole grips before discovering that getting the rest of the pionion out was not quite so straightforward.

With everything back where it should be, the rest of the weekend has been spent 'test-driving'. I've had my first go at piloting DRY in its new configuration and....don't tell anyone...but I actually quite liked it. Have I finally been bitten by the Maestro bug????http://www.maestro.org.uk/forums/images/smilies/face3.gif

Next weekend DRY gets its first long run with the new engine as we're off to Cheshire for, guess what, another wedding! This time we're combining it with a trip to pick up a new headlining (I don't think Si would go otherwise).

So the digidash is on hold for now and the pinion has been left unscrewed in case it 'works itself free'. Now that DRY is operating at something approaching warp speed, it just might...:horror:

[G51 NAV]

Glad it's coming along well and that you like the result. You may find that you wished the 5th gear was just that little bit higher-geared, after an hour or so of travelling at 70mph+, but other than that, O-series engines and Maestros were made for each other :) (figuratively, not literally: I'm well aware O-series engines were around quite some time before Maestros).

[threelitre]

You may find that you wished the 5th gear was just that little bit higher-geared, after an hour or so of travelling at 70mph+, but other than that, O-series engines and Maestros were made for each other :)

After spending hours with the car even sitting at 110 and more I think the gearing is fine, other than that I fully agree - a very good combination. My other half found it actually not so good to drive on the Autobahn as she had difficulty not creeping past 100mph all the time :)

Alexander

[G51 NAV]

:laugh:

[B18 GPC]

Job Well Done Guys....

I never thought I'd see the day Si had a Barry exhaust on his car!! ;)