Better rear Speakers

[SimonR]

I've been wondering recently about how to increase the output from my rear speakers. Currently I have standard-sized 2-way Panasonic speakers on the usual place, but the bass, if I'm being honest, is terrible.

The primary consideration for my car's audio system is that it doesn't look too upgraded and impede on the practicality of the car. Thus big boot-mounted subs are right out, along with external amplifiers and speakers mounted on the parcel shelf.

What I was thinking about was using the space in the boot to the rear of the wheel arches on either side and making an enclosure to enhance the sound of the current speakers and even perhaps mount an additional bass speaker for added thump, although I worry that there won't be enough air in the enclosure.

Another thing I was considering was removing the plastic trims from alongside the parcelshelf and getting my father to make me wooden ones from Walnut to match the doorcappings. Then I could make a nice custom enclosure, using all that space and also mounting larger speakers in the first place.

What does anyone reckon...?

Btw, I'm using a Sony 4x45w stereo with MD and CD changer and Mordaunt Short 'Silver Maestro' speaker wire from Richersounds.

[E_T_V]

Well here is my 2p worth.

The rear speakers are never going to be "good" at bass as they are so small. It is however worth changing the standard austin rover ones for newer after market ones as the originals are rubbish as you have done.

I went for the option of parcelshelf mounted speakers, but as they have square grills they fit almost perfectly in the grooves that are already there.

If you don't want to go this route but want more bass you have a couple more options which I know some members have tried sucessfully.

The first is to make/buy a small sub and fit it under one (or even both) front seats. This space is unused and your system will still look totally standard.

The other place to hide a small sub is under the dash board. There is quite a lot of space up there, but can be awkward to work at!

You can as you say fit a sub enclosure into the space behind the rear suspension turrets although this would decrease your boot space a little.

Another thing I have done is fit larger speakers to the front doors (6.5" rather than the 5" ones) It can be done and doesn't look tooo non standard.

Your option of building an enclosure for the current speakers is valid although could be difficult and I think wouldn't lead to a huge benefit as the boot is effectively one large enclosure already.

One option which no-one I'm aware of currently has tried is installing speakers into the rear doors.

Hope some of this helps

[E_T_V]

Oh yes forgot to mention if your father did make up some wooden replacements for the plastic bits where the rear speakers mount I think there would be interest from a number of members for some too as those bits of plastic get broken soo easily and you could also mount some decent speakers there too.

[MGTurbo]

Forget getting bass in the back. Put some 6 1/2 inchers in the front door's and dynamat them, will be fine then. Do bear in mind if you have the O.E head unit it's not that bassy anyway.

Gareth

[SimonR]

Thanks for your replies Guys!

I agree with all of that, and had considered the possibility of a sub mounted somewhere in the car. I rather liked the idea of mounting one in the front under the dash because that'd make wiring very easy and also use up wasted space. However I have no experience of doing this - has anyone else?

Firstly, can you buy a decent one that will give good output but still fit in the gap?
Secondly, how do you wire it in? My stereo has pre-outs at line-level and I suppose I could wire the sub powersupply straight to the battery. Having done that I would need to make some sort of crossover to keep the bass out of my other speakers as they tend to fart if I put any bass at all through them at a decent volume.

As Gareth suggests, I think I'll uprate the front speakers anyway and see how that goes. I think that after I've done that I'll also need to up the performance of the powersupply to the head unit as I get significant dimming of the facia lights in time to the bass at moderate volumes... Btw, Gareth: do you recommend any particular brand/model of speaker? You also mentioned on another thread that to fit larger speakers all you need is a spacer ring... Where might I find one? - I'm guessing that motorfactors might not have one...

Any more views would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers, Simon R.

[E_T_V]

My 6.5" front speakers don't need a spacer ring they are monted to the door card itself. You have to watch that the speaker connections do not short out on the inside of the door though as they are a tight squeeze. (I went through a few fuses slamming my doors too hard before I relaised what the problem was).

If you want to mount a small sub in the front I know someone on here has done it (can't remember who at this time) and you can either make a unit up with a small(ish) amp and connect it to your preouts (which won't affect the other speakers at all assuming they are wired into the high level outputs) or you can buy ready made units like I've seen in one car (under the seat) and either fit it inder the seat or in the underside of the dash.

I think I remember a photo of it beeing posted to one of these forums whihc may be worth a search for, (It may have been the old forum rather than this new one). I'm sure they'll be along shortly anyhow to say how it is done. (I'm currently building an under seat variety)

Anyone know how much volume the enclosure should have? As there are no instructions with my sub.

I'll try and get some photos of the door speakers too if you like to show they aren't too out of place.

[Simon]

Small amplified subwoofer mounted ahead of the centre console for a little reinforcement of low sounds.

[Jonathan]

This is the unit I installed under the front passenger seat in my Maestro and it really is quite impressive, giving a much more pleasing overall sound than my more modern car which had two pretty big speakers in the rear shelf from the factory. It's a very similar idea to the one Simon shows.

It is a little bit bigger than I'd like though, so can be felt by the passenger especially with the bass turned up!

[MGTurbo]

Shown is the set up i've had for many year's, JBL Gto 6.5's, and Infinity Kappa tweeter's.

Gareth

[SimonR]

Now I have a little time and money I can look into this further and have decided to get a sub and wire it in using the phono Pre-outs on my Sony head unit.

One further question tho: does any one know how the pre-outs on the Sony head units work? What I'm hoping is that the volume control will conrtol the output level but the tone controls will have no effect, meaning that I can turn the bass right down on the head unit so that my current speakers don't distort at high volumes but the sub still gets a nice bassy sound.

I'm guessing the volume *must* be governed by the head unit otherwise how would you change the volume of an external amplifier...?

[E_T_V]

From what I understand you are correct in both assumptions.

The volume is controlled on the preouts by the stereo controls
The bass/treble I believe is not as it is a line out connection.

If I am incorrect however it is a simple matter to fit a crossover to the orignal speakers to take out the low frequencies.

As GK and I have said Beef up the front speakers first and add tweeters as we have done and then see if you need more.

[SimonR]

Thanks for that info, Dan.

I had considered fitting bigger speakers to the front and adding tweeters further up the door but have discounted that idea mainly because I'm trying to keep the interior as standard as possible (apart from very subtle improvements such as the MGF rear view mirror and electric sunroof). The other thing is that the speakers in my doors are actually upgraded but the same diameter as the original speakers they also have coaxially mounted tweeters.

I think I'll go along with the assumption that the headunit will change the volume but not tone of the sub and see where that gets me. Needless to say the manual for the stereo doesn't shed any light on this. Mind you it *has* got instructions in English, German, Italian and Spanish. Damn thing.

[talkingcars]

My first thought is "which head unit are you using?". Sony have made so many over the years. Does yours definatly have an preout for subs? I have encountered some which have preouts for all sounds for building a "sound System" using lots of amps etc.

In my first maestro I didn't have preouts on my head unit so I used a passive cross over mounted under the dash on the tunnel to filter the higher frequencies going through the cable to the rear, I then fitted 8" subs mounted in thick MDF between the suspension turret and the rear lights on each side and connected these 2 the cables in the boot, disconecting the standard speakers, there was a noticable improvment in bass. In my current car I am using a sub preout, seperate amp and bass box and get a real thump but I don't use this as my shopping car.

The tweeters Gareth uses are from a late montego, the easest solution is to fit the door caps from the doner car but I don't think you will find any walnut ones. I mounted some in the roof of my van, gave real clarity to the sound. IMHO if you have tweeters low in the door their effect is lost. Most O/E tweeters have a resistor attached to act as a cross over.

Fitting a larger speaker in the front door is also a good move, or high quility speakers of the same size. If you do need spacers these will come from a car hifi dealer.

If the unit has a sub preout the headunit will do the job of a crossover filtering the highs out of the sub preout, when you set up the head unit you can then turn down the bass on the normal output.

James

[MaestroMatt]

Originally posted by MGTurbo
Forget getting bass in the back. Put some 6 1/2 inchers in the front door's and dynamat them, will be fine then. Do bear in mind if you have the O.E head unit it's not that bassy anyway.

Gareth

Just had a look at the Dynamat site and it's damned expensive stuff! Is there a cheaper alternative or is nothing as good as the named brand stuff? Would like to do my inner door skins when I fit some big speakers but not at that price.

[E_T_V]

Yes a top tip from someone on here (Sorry can't remember who at the moment) was to use that stick-on gutter and roof flashing (avaiable from DIY stores. Does the same job but costs substantialy less.

Also not many people realise that they don't have to completely cover the panel you want to stop resonating, a small piece attached will do the job just as well. (look inside your door and you'll see a piece already there attached by Rover).

[E_T_V]

Ahh found it take a look at the Soundproofing an EFI thread, and the tip was from Alan the Vanner.

A search for Dynamat on here will reveal all.


Perhaps a lot of ICE fans would recommend Dynamat soundproofing, or similar. A cheaper way would be to use self adhesive tin foil flashing used for roofing. It's cheaper for me when you consider I have a van with a lot more "boot space". It will help to accoustically deaden the body panels and stop them "ringing" when driving along. Hope that helps. Al.

[Alan the Vanner]

Originally posted by E_T_V
Yes a top tip from someone on here (Sorry can't remember who at the moment) was to use that stick-on gutter and roof flashing (avaiable from DIY stores. Does the same job but costs substantialy less.

That'll be me then!
I bought a roll a while ago for about twenty quid and still have a lot left. In fact my Dad gave me another load recently that was left over from the roof on the conservatory. I shall have to measure out the rest of the back panels and see what I'll have left over, if anyone is interested in having the surplus. But it won't be for a while yet.

[Sam]

Originally posted by D428CHO
This is the unit I installed under the front passenger seat in my Maestro and it really is quite impressive, giving a much more pleasing overall sound than my more modern car which had two pretty big speakers in the rear shelf from the factory. It's a very similar idea to the one Simon shows.

It is a little bit bigger than I'd like though, so can be felt by the passenger especially with the bass turned up!

Has this sub got a built in amp? Where can you get them from and how much are they?

[Jonathan]

Here's where I got mine...

https://www.edworthys.co.uk/edworthys/prodlist.asp?catID=73&product_category=Subwoofers

Not the ideal solution for everyone but it does the trick nicely if you don't need everyone in town to hear the bass notes. About £120 with postage but an amp is built in. It needs an ISO connection though, I'm converting the loom in my car as I'll be upgrading to an R950 and CD multichanger soon.

Anyone know where you can get the ISO plugs and terminals separately?

[Andy]

or u could just go for the best components. Fusion seem to be winning the db tests for most of ther range ther 5infsc-5e components are the loudest 5in y can get at 118db priced at £70 and if u changed youre mind and got 6*9,s ther are allso the loudest in the range and the kenwood kfc-6989ie 6*9 are renowned for ther amazing base if u need boot space and cant have subs

Andy

[Sam]

Originally posted by D428CHO
This is the unit I installed under the front passenger seat in my Maestro and it really is quite impressive, giving a much more pleasing overall sound than my more modern car which had two pretty big speakers in the rear shelf from the factory. It's a very similar idea to the one Simon shows.

It is a little bit bigger than I'd like though, so can be felt by the passenger especially with the bass turned up!

Why don't you put it somewhere elseif it's too bassy under the passenger seat?

[Jonathan]

That's the disadvantage of this approach, there aren't really many other places it can go bearing in mind I want it to be very discreet! The boot space would be the only other option, but it's likely to get in the way there.

[SimonR]

Well, I bought a sub - saw a bargain on eBay that I couldn't ignore:

Click Here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3070669848)

That should arrive today and I'll have immense fun wiring it in and making F153 shake for a while until I get bored and turn it down to a more sensible level.

I simply cannot wait to hear Brian Perkins' voice with the correct timbre for the first time in the car! :)

Thanks for all you help and advice folks.

[MaestroMatt]

Originally posted by F153JUE
I simply cannot wait to hear Brian Perkins' voice with the correct timbre for the first time in the car! :)

Good thing you bought it now - he's retiring this year.

[Sam]

Originally posted by F153JUE
Well, I bought a sub - saw a bargain on eBay that I couldn't ignore:



Please tell us how good it is when you've installed it. How big is it and where are you going to put it? :)

[threelitre]

Originally posted by F153JUE
Well, I bought a sub - saw a bargain on eBay that I couldn't ignore:


Hi!

This looks like a pretty good deal. Tell us how it is doin'... I have the feeling that this will be a good addition to the other Blaupunkt stuff in my car :)

Alexander

[SimonR]

My sub arrived today and it's exactly as I'd hoped - although I've not plugged it in yet!

It is nice and discreet and fits very nicely in front of the centre console, under the dash where it'll not be seen just like Simon H's. Rather luckily the wiring connector points in the right direction so that I can hide it right at the back of the unit.

I'm going to wire it in tomorrow if I can find the time so I'll let you know how it sounds.

Interestingly it came with instructions for fitting to a Skoda Fabia so I guess that's where it was going before it fell off the back of a lorry (if it did).

I'll let you all know how Brian Perkins sounds just as soon as it's installed.

Thanks for you interest!

Simon R.

[SimonR]

The Sub is now fitted into the car so I can give you my honest appraisal.

Firstly, the fitting was a doddle because the wiring harness supplied with it came with the correct connectors to wire it into the fusebox. Once this was done, all I had to do was snip a wire in the harness that receives a 12v signal from the stereo to turn the Sub on and connect it to the 12v supply that come out the back of the head unit.

The connections were:
+12V
Ground
+12V switched
Audio in L
Audio in R

The unit is now firmly wedged under the dash in front of the centre console. All I have to do now is work out from where to take the 12V supply to the fusebox. Currently it is running off the cigar lighter using a lead I made up for the time being.

Although it was easy to fit I'm not very impressed with the sound. It seems that my stereo's tone controls *do* alter the output signal as well as the speaker signals. Thus if I turn the bass up I think I get a noticeable improvement but the car speakers fart as they did before. So far it's been impossible to just hear how much bass the sub is outputting but I don't think it's making that much difference - certainly not as much as I'd have liked. I might play around with its location and settings some more to see if I can get a better result.

If I can improve matters I'll let you know! I may have to fit cross-overs to the speakers when I take off the door cards to sort the electric window motors out.