Crank Seal Replacement

[Jeff Turbo]

My sons Maestro Special 1.3 has yet another oil leak. How 'easy' or difficult is it to change the crank oil seal from the gearbox side? I know the gearbox and clutch has to come off, is it easy?

[E_T_V]

The seal itself it pretty easy to fit, just like the one on the other end. It is just hte getting to it that is fun!

Yes the gearbox and clutch has to come off. If you've done a PG1 gearbox clutch then it is pretty much the same sort of difficulty and process. The hardest part is undoing all the allen bolts that hold the driveshaft on. A set of ball ended allen keys is worth its weight in gold here. Once the clutch is off it is just a case of removing the old one and tapping the new one home.

[Jeff Turbo]

Thanks Dan
The last clutch that I worked on was on a 3.0litre Ford Capri in 1978:laugh:

[E_T_V]

That was the year that I was born if that makes you feel any better :p

You'll need a couple of jacks one to support the engine and one to support the gearbox, or if feeling fit some strong arms to lift the box on and off and you can make do with just the one jack.

I wouldn't say it is a hard job but it is a fairly long one if that makes sense. The hardest part is putting the box back on getting all the splines and clutch to line up but that is more fiddly and frustrating rather than hard.

[Jeff Turbo]

I thought so. Taking it out would be quite easy, but putting it back a 'little' harder. Still, I used to do gearbox and engine changes on my own on rear wheel drive cars, so this 'should' be easier although i'm not as strong as in my 'younger' days. I once changed a Ford Zephyr 4 engine in the '70s without an engine crane. Picked it up and threw it over the front wing on to scaffold boards to get it out, then picked it up and threw it into the engine bay on boards and a LARGE trolley jack to put it back in. This should be a doddle:laugh:

[threelitre]

My 1.3 is just in for a new set of seals on the bottom end. The workshop manual recommends engine out...

Alexander

[Jeff Turbo]

My 1.3 is just in for a new set of seals on the bottom end. The workshop manual recommends engine out...

Alexander
I've already done the other one, so I will just have to take the 'easy option' and NOT take the engine out.

[ChrisM]

What's the procedure for changing the one on the waterpump side of the engine? Mine has sprung a leak and I'm a bit of a novice, lol... Can't find any mention in the Haynes Book of Lies, either...

[Jeff Turbo]

What's the procedure for changing the one on the waterpump side of the engine? Mine has sprung a leak and I'm a bit of a novice, lol... Can't find any mention in the Haynes Book of Lies, either...
Is it a 1.3l?

[ChrisM]

Is it a 1.3l?
Yes.

[Jeff Turbo]

From what I can remember.

Remove the drivers side wheel and inspection cover from the inner wing. Undo the crankshaft pulley bolt. Remove the fan belt and pulley. Undo the timing cover bolts and remove the cover from the engine bay. Remove the timing cover oil seal. Clean all of the old gasket from the timing cover and side of the engine. Replace the oil seal with a little grease. Replace the timing cover gasket and attach to the engine. Replace the crankshaft pulley and fan belt. Replace the inspection cover and road wheel. Job done and it's quite easy but you may have problems undoing the crankshaft pulley bolt

[Peter J]

Just wondered if it cured the oil leak, or if the oil might have been coming from the gearbox as the input shaft apparently has two seals - one around the shaft and one around the clutch pushrod that runs down the centre of the input shaft? I imagine that once the oil has been thrown around inside the clutch housing it may be hard to see which side it came from, engine or gearbox?

I bought a spare crankshaft seal yesterday to go with my spare clutch as I happened to be visiting Rimmer Brothers http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/ If you are in the Lincoln area its worth a visit there as they have an interesting (and free) museum of Austin Rover cars, as well as a vast warehouse of spares for Austin Rover cars including the Maestro. Prices seem good too, the large crankshaft seal was only £2.80. They had the crankshaft seal in stock, but they did not have the gearbox input shaft seals in stock. I wonder if a Volkswagen place would have them since it is a Volkswagen gearbox. Does anyone know which Volkswagen car the Maestro gearbox is from? Or has changed a gearbox input shaft oil seal on the 1.3 4 speed gearbox?

[threelitre]

Any VW Golf from the '80s will do (Mk1 and Mk2) as they have the same gearbox with just different ratios as per application.

Alexander

[Peter J]

Many Thanks for that Alexander, I'll check them out :)

[Peter J]

Well I went down to the Volkswagen main agent (Herons of Newark) and the partsman found the gearbox mainshaft seal part number on his computer. Then he said they don't have any in stock as he has never been asked for one in all the 15 years he has worked there. So I guess that means the oil is more likely to leak from the engine than the gearbox.

[threelitre]

My Maestro is in fact (very, very) slightly weeping oil from the gearbox seal, it was visible when the gearbox was on the bench when the engine got the new seals. And I know of one Maestro where the gearbox emptied it's contents via this seal, leaving it stranded - awaiting an uncertain fate yet (shame, as it's an early LHD 1.3LE model).

Alexander

[Peter J]

Thanks for the info threelitre, I think I'll go back and order the input shaft oil seals before I take the clutch out. Has anyone fitted one?

[G Force]

Thanks for the info threelitre, I think I'll go back and order the input shaft oil seals before I take the clutch out. Has anyone fitted one?

The gearbox input shaft oil seal is easy to fit as it is easily accessable with the gearbox out. You need to take care when prising out the old seal not to damage the input shaft, and then take care not to damage the new seal on the splines of the input shaft. The seal can then be easily drifted home into the gearbox housing with a suitable deep socket. The seals used to come ready lubed but if not just a small smear of vaseline or gear oil will surfice.

The clutch push rod seal is more prone to leaking as there is a bronze bush inside the input shaft that wears and causes excess lateral movement of the push rod. The bush can be replaced easily by inserting a heavily greased suitable tap then extracting the bush by knocking the tap wrench handle or vice grips etc. gentley towards you with a small hammer. Replace the bush to the same depth as it was originally fitted taking care not to damage it. A new seal can be then fitted to a depth of 1mm from the end of the shaft bore, the seals are easily damaged so use light force using a suitable sized socket or drift.

Gary:)

[Peter J]

Many Thanks Gary, Thats what I wanted to hear!

The Haynes manual would have you reading the whole book and stripping the gearbox to do that!

[Peter J]

PS: This is the gearbox input shaft oil seal for my Maestro 1.3 showing Volkswagen part numbers on the box

[Jeff Turbo]

If you are in the Lincoln area its worth a visit there as they have an interesting (and free) museum of Austin Rover cars, as well as a vast warehouse of spares for Austin Rover cars including the Maestro.

I did cure the oil leak thanks. Rimmers has a Museum? I'm there quite a lot as I live close and i've never seen that.

[Peter J]

I did cure the oil leak thanks. Rimmers has a Museum? I'm there quite a lot as I live close and i've never seen that.

Its not a big museum, just a small but interesting collection of cut down Rover cars and engines in the foyer where you go in to buy the spare parts (front right hand corner of the main building when you are looking at it from the road) I was there a couple of weeks ago to get some parts, and given a free spares catalogue dated September 2008. I was pleasantly surprised to find a photo of my van on page 117, presumably taken from this website :) http://www.maestro.org.uk/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1386&ppuser=2511

[G Force]

http://www.maestro.org.uk/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1386&ppuser=2511

What a beautiful clean example of a Maestro van,:thumbup: Great shot too, is it still as nice?:)

[Peter J]

What a beautiful clean example of a Maestro van,:thumbup: Great shot too, is it still as nice?:)

Thank You :) It still looks the same from that distance. But when you get closer you can see rust has started in all the usual places, but not developed because I attacked it straightaway before it got chance to spread. I used brush paint though, because I find it so much quicker and easier to touch up rust spots. So in the bottom corners of the doors and windscreen pillars, the wheelarch edges etc, you can see the brush strokes in the paint. It doesn't look as good as a professional respray. But it looks a lot better than rust.

[G51 NAV]

It still looks the same from that distance. But when you get closer you can see rust has started in all the usual placesWasn't it your good self who last year showed us your van as a prime example of how effective old engine oil is as a rust cure, and I argued that I could see it working as a cheap inhibitor but it contained no stabilising chemicals to kill off the existing corrosion ;)? If it wasn't you, just ignore me

EDIT: Van still looks good though!

[Peter J]

Wasn't it your good self who last year showed us your van as a prime example of how effective old engine oil is as a rust cure, and I argued that I could see it working as a cheap inhibitor but it contained no stabilising chemicals to kill off the existing corrosion ;)? If it wasn't you, just ignore me

EDIT: Van still looks good though!

Thank You :)

The rust started in the bottom of the driver and passenger door corners, and around the rear wheelarch seam. I painted over it from the outside, but it came back within a few weeks, and I can't get to the inside where the rust was obviously coming from. So I squirted clean engine oil in from an oil can and that must have at least slowed down the existing corrosion, because I haven't had to repaint it again for years.

I found rust growing underneath the original underseal coating on the floor pan, so scraped the loose off and brushed it with clean gear oil. The rust hasn't come back yet, and would be much easier to spot when it does, unlike when it was growing underneath the underseal.

I have often found rust spreading beneath an underseal coating, but have never found rust growing under oil. As far as I know, oily metal doesn't rust, but painted metal often does.

I also found rust growing underneath the original plastic coating on the metal bumpers when it started peeling off in some places. So I stripped it off with the angle grinder wire brush and brush painted them black. That has stopped the rust, but you see the brush marks when you get closer.

[digital efi]

Sometimes 'quick fix' preservation measures can be better than waiting and waiting to get the resources together to do a 'proper' job, even if they don't look as good. ;)

[Peter J]

Sometimes 'quick fix' preservation measures can be better than waiting and waiting to get the resources together to do a 'proper' job, even if they don't look as good. ;)

Exactly. Its so much quicker, easier, and cheaper, to just squirt a bit of oil in the door cavities, and touch up rust spots with a brush. If I had to wait until I could get an invisible repair done, the rust would have taken a hold, and the van would be scrap like nearly all the others.

My Maestro is not a museum piece, but its still a reliable, practical, and economical working van :)

[Peter J]

PS: It might be worth adding that you can test the gearbox seal before you put the gearbox back, by tilting the gearbox and turning the shaft, with the oil in it, to make sure no oil is coming past the seal. (not a very stringent test I know but probably better than nothing?) I got a seal off ebay which leaked a bit when tested in this way, so replaced it with an Original Equipment Volkswagen seal (pictured in post 20 on this thread) which does not leak.