diesel starting problem

[steve smith]

i have a 1991 j reg montego saloon. in the mornings when she is cold she does not start properly and the cold start device does not seem to work can u still get them?? i have replace the glow plug relay unit god nows how many times and still the sane does any one have any ideas ??

[E_T_V]

By the cold start solonoid do you mean the actual cold start solonoid or the other solonoid which increases the idle speed. I only ask as the idle speed one is a very common failure as the wire to the device snaps and causes difficult starting when cold. The wire can be fixed or you can use a little throttle or even adjust the idle speed up a little.

If you do indeed mean the solonoid in the fuel pump then I'm clueless sorry. To check it isn't an electrical problem you could always get the multimeter out to check if power is being fed to it when cold.

[Liam]

The cold start solenoid works the opposite way arround from what you would expect. When cold there should be NO power to the cold start solonoid until the engine warms up but there should be power on the high idel solenoid. Having said this the diesel unit is normaly a good started wether warm or cold. I've had two diesels and they've always started first time every time in all weather. You say you've changed the glow plug relay but what about the glow plugs themselves?

HTH

Liam.

[MGTurbo]

I may be missing something here, but see no mention of glowplugs being replaced? If one or two have failed, cold starting will become much more difficult. It's worth changing the lot of them every couple of year's, its something that needs doing to mine. The fast idle solonoid should be checked, but this should affect the actual starting, it will help with the extra oil drag in the cold engine to help it warm up sooner.

Gareth

[steve smith]

its the solinoid near the injector pump the fast idle one i think some times when shes warmed up and u have the bonnet up and u rev her from the trottle cable the stupid thing kicks in and she runs too fast and some times she does not.

[steve smith]

i also for got to say the glow plugs have all been replaced when i fitted a new head 2 months ago and bottom half of the engine was rebuilt sometime last year before i got the car. the reason for the head swap was it had an internal crack and was losing loads of water
.
p.s how do i put a pic on here next to my name???

[E_T_V]

Well my advice is to give it a damn good clean to see if that helps. being stuck at the front of the engine bay it doesn't have an easy life. It sounds like it is sticking rather than the broken wire problem which is common. Give it a good clean up and give it a little lubrication and see if that helps.

Having said that I don't think it should actuate when the engine is warmed up so have a check for loose wiring around the air and engine temperature sensors. (mind you I'm new to oil burners so I might be talking rubbish)

[E_T_V]

To get a pic next to your name (avatar) go to "user options" link on the menu at the top and then under the "edit options" tab. At the bottom you'll find how to upload a picture. You have to get it the right size though for it to work.

[Liam]

When I bought my maestro the fast idle solenoid had been disconnected, i wondered why and when i reconnected it I could see why. For some reason it bought the idle speed up far too much, the engine was racing away. So I just disconected it again and have not had any starting problems. I will sort it out when I get time as the engine runs a little slow at idle when cold but its not really a problem. Think the solenoid is just moving too far or something. Anyway this is what leads me to think that you're having glow plug trouble. Try checking that there is power to each of the glow plugs in turn. You might need some assistance as the glow plugs only run for a couple of seconds when you turn the key (amber coil symbol illuminates). It could be a simple bad connection or something.

hope this is of some help maybe,

Liam.

[steve smith]

yeah i will take a look at them but they are all new but one may just be playing up so i think it's time to have them out thats if they will. if one is playing up and it can be bypassed would that make any differance?? also i am having a slight problem with my country man diesel if its been standing for a week or so it takes ages to start. i know all they glow plugs are new as they had just been done when i got it any ideas????

[J199 HHG]

Get a compression test done on it - if compression is low for any reason then it will be a pig to start.

Check there's 12V on each glow plug when there should be.

Check injector pump timing and cam timing. One tooth out on the pump will make quite a difference. And it's quite hard to get it back together when changing the belt as the pump has a spring effect trying quite hard to move it from the correct position.

Get the injectors tested for spray pattern. A wimpy dribble from the end wont work very well.

[G Force]

One other thing to consider is that the fuel could be draining back to the tank, this is usually caused by a small air leak in the fuel line, tank side of the lift pump. Usual suspect is the hand primer assembly on the fuel filter head leaking air, it does'nt show up as a fuel leak as you might expect because it is before the lift pump. you will need to fit a new one as they are not repairable.

Cheers gary

[steve smith]

thanks i will take a look at it tomorrow and take the new one i have on my other diesel engined montego. what sort of price are they new ????

[BIGLAD]

Originally posted by G Force
One other thing to consider is that the fuel could be draining back to the tank, this is usually caused by a small air leak in the fuel line, tank side of the lift pump. Usual suspect is the hand primer assembly on the fuel filter head leaking air, it does'nt show up as a fuel leak as you might expect because it is before the lift pump. you will need to fit a new one as they are not repairable.

Cheers gary

Hi,
You used to be able to get a repair kit for the lift pump from Rover Dealers, it consisted mainly of the diaphragm if i remember right.
If you need one i have a brand new one- £12.
Thanks
Biglad

[G Force]

hi biglad, the one i mean is the hand pump on top of the fuel filter i think it is on all turbo's but not 100%

cheers gary

[BIGLAD]

Hi,
There is no hand pump on the top of the filter housing. It is just a basic ally bracket/housing that the filter screws onto. There are severeal drillings/holes that allow the fuel to enter/exit and a 10mm screw head that you undo to bleed the air out, e.g a new filter.
The only lift pump/hand primer fitted to the Perkins runs off the cam. Its the same for Turbo-d and N.Aspirated engines.
Thanks
Biglad

[steve smith]

hi thanks for that i will go to barrets or who ever and see if they can do me one.

[G Force]

cheers for that biglad I must have had my wires crossed somewhere must get out more sorry.

regards gary

[BIGLAD]

Originally posted by BIGLAD
Hi,
You used to be able to get a repair kit for the lift pump from Rover Dealers, it consisted mainly of the diaphragm if i remember right.
If you need one i have a brand new one- £12.
Thanks
Biglad

When i said i had a "brand new" one, i meant a complete new lift pump and not just the Diaphragm!
Doh!
Biglad

[derek mclean]

There's an easy way to test glow plugs. It's not absolutely foolproof but it gives a pretty fair indication.
You use a small clamp-on type ammeter. They usually have a 100A scale, and that it about the sort of current a set of glow plugs should draw when you first switch on. It usually reduces to about half that when the glow plugs start to warm up.
So look for 60 to 100A, reducing over a few seconds.
I know, not many people have such an instrument, but any friendly decent garage should. It ony takes a few seconds to do the test. There's no disconnecting or anything. Just clip or hold the gauge over the plug feed wire and switch on. Easy as that.
This may help to ease the worry about whether the plugs are working.

Derek.

[skipweasel]

[skipweasel]

i know all they glow plugs are new as they had just been done when i got it any ideas????
I've had cheap glowplugs fail in a matter of weeks sometimes.Don't get Halfords' own brand or other cheapies - get Bosch or Lucas ones.