heater idea

[Wonko_The_Sane]

Since winter marches onwards, and my heater is taking a long time to do much I thought I'd ask for help and ideas.

I've had a loan of a Citroen BX TD auto..and it made me rather envious of how slow my heater can be to warm up and control.

Firstly, I drive 8 miles a day at least to work..fast runs. The engine temp isn't even hitting halfway on the (digital) guage. It's now sitting 1 mark below. Only since it's got cold.

I'm tempted to change the 'stat..but it's never been moved and I don't want to break a bolt as it's in daily use. Any ideas or suggestions on how best to do this? I'm tempted to go for a hotter unit, so the heater gives me a bit more. What is available?

Secondly..I have the naff "III only" heater issue. I really can't be arsed to rip the dash out and fix it..it's the otterstat..it does occasionally kick in for no reason. I do however own a spare "control" unit.

My idea is to enclose this in a box with some high-flow 12V PC fans to cool it. Then, I run the "III" connection on my existing switch to the power feed on the "offboard" unit, and the other end of it to the heater cable via the multiplug thats there. Basically keep the switch, but make the naff control external and accessible.

Anyone got any views or forsee any problems with this?

The BX has a rather good rotary "on/off" control...totally variable. I'm going to get a haynes and look with interest..I'd love something like that on the maestro..:)

[Quality]

Why not try the Tatra underseat petrol heater route.

[Aussie Montego]

You could always wrap about two feet of copper pipe around the exhaust manifold and hook the heater hoses to it!

[Rich]

Wonko, definatly change the stat, with an 88 degreee one.

Had mine changed just before winter (when I ripped the sump off the car, which is still creating problems) it took two days and needed new bolts in the end. Get yourself prepared, get new bolts and a new housing as well as the stat and the gaskets. If the bolts get bug**ered then you will still be safe, can always heat the housing with a blow lamp to make it easier, or chop the housing up, then wind the bolts out. It is very much worth doing, H902's temp gauge sits about halfway up the scale all the time now, and it lovely and warm!

Rich

[G51 NAV]

It's not for no good reason that the Haynes manual recommends flushing the cooling system every two years. In such a service, the thermostat would be replaced as a matter of course. Such a routine would help to ensure that the thermostat-housing bolts had less opportunity to seize, the radiator, heater-matrix and associated pipework would be far less likely to get blocked, and our cars in general would perform a whole lot better.

Trouble is, we're talking about cars which were bought new generally by people who just about knew how to fill them with petrol and whose idea of 'doing their own service' meant checking the tyres twice a year. Neither could they generally afford to regularly meet the price of offical Austin Rover servicing. So it never got done.

The cars are allowed to rumble on until one day something fails, be it the brakes, alternator, cooling-system component (as in this case) etc. By this time, the car's now in the hands of a caring owner, but the damage has already been done literally years ago, and we're left to repair the bi-product of a decade or more of sheer neglect.

Perhaps one reason that luxury cars such as Mercs and BMWs are perceived as being more reliable than British cars is that they're either company-owned (and thus generally well looked after) or inherently bought by well-off types for whom a £500 servicing bill every six months is just small change.

If our cars had been on the receiving end of such lavish treatment from day one, you probably wouldn't be faced with seized thermostat-housing bolts ten years down the line :(

[Rich]

So it wouldn't be anything to do with the fact that a steel bolt in an aluminium housing causes a reaction between the differing materials thus seizing the bolt(s)? Add to that, high and low temparatures, and water, and you have the perfect combination for some good old corrosive activity.

I have flushed the cooling system many times on my maestro, however, never changed the stat until now, due to a partial fear of being left in the lurch because those bolts are renowned for snapping. The service history for my car showed a lot of work done, including thermostat, head gasket, brakes, and general oil, filters and plugs etc.

I do believe there is quite some truth in what you say though John, who would want to waste money on what is technically a cheap family car, compared to some over priced hunk of BMW, Merc etc etc.

[G Force]

Hi there, as rich says get yourself well prepared for the worst if it should happen, get stuck in and change the faulty stat to the 88 degree type. Not only will you be nice and warm, it will improve the cars drivabillity during warm up, reduce engine wear and improve your fuel conumption into the bargain.

Cheers Gary :)

[Simon]

Yes, I had the same problem with seized 'stat housing bolts and all I did is saw through the housing and then the bolts stubs came out as easy as anything. I fitted a new housing but took the precaution of laying a sheet of emery cloth on a known flat surface and rubbing the housing on that to give a truly flat surface prior to installing a new gasket and new bolts. The bolts were liberally coppaslipped to prevent seizure in the future (I hope).

[E_T_V]

Yes I'm afraid the problem is just down to crap design. Aluminium, water, and steel don't mix. Best advice is to liberally coat them with grease. If you really want to go to town, you could use stainless or aluminium bolts, paint the bolts or change the bolts for studs. My option was to use plenty of grease.

[tony]

just a quick thought but will grease melt went the engine gets hot??

[E_T_V]

Depends on how hot it gets. Also the grease doesn't really have anywhere to go anyway so it sits in the stat housing (if it is waterproof it'll be grease proof too) I used copperlip too as no lubricating qualitys are needed for this application.

[Rich]

Coppaslip or coppercrest, "should" not melt, its high temparature working, and the copper flakes should stick whatever, with the sort of things we use it on at work its pretty dam good stuff! I covered the new bolts in the stuff when I put the exhaust front pipe on my 1.3 last time I ripped it off, which is in need of attention again, so I am pretty confident they should come out again easilly enough.

The problem isn't the thread that gets jammed, its the bolt in the aluminium, I have considered modifying the housing to allow a steel sleeve to be put in the holes to prevent the steel bolts corroding to the aluminuim but it was only idle thought.

[Dave]

Is it possible to turn to one of the older a-series models, maybe the minor, for a cast iron elbow - or have they always been aluminium? Perhaps the geometry is too far out for it to be compatible?

Dave.

[Wonko_The_Sane]

I once gave some thought to those "in line" thermostat housings, and just not using the normal thermostat housing.

[MGTurbo]

Agree with Rich, one of the most simple jobs on the 1.3 and it turns into a nightmare if the bolts seize/corrode. As mentioned, the bolt corrodes to the housing, although the bolt does also corrode into the head casting but not to the extent that it won't undo from there.

Simon's advice is sounds, smash the housing to pieces and obtain a new one from Rover IF after you've tried WD-40/heat etc the bolts won't shift.

Copper grease is high melting point, thats why its used on brake calipers etc, and like most grease, is water-proof.. so use loads of it on re-assembly.

Gareth

[Peter Davies]

In days of yore we fitted muffs to the radiator in cold weather, restricting the airflow, or a roller blind controlled from inside the car. A simpler way is to slip some cardboard in front of the radiator (experiment with the size) and throw it away next summer. Cooking foil is another material that could be used.
Useful as a stop gap until you break the thermostat housing bolts checking the thermostat, which is the likeliest reason for your underheating; though your problem could also be a clogged heater matrix.

[Wonko_The_Sane]

Heater matrix is good...I flush that through both ways religiously after being caught by it before..:rolleyes:

I seem to have a shortage of cardboard, but a numberplate fits behind the grille perfectly...:laugh: