More problems

[D813YBB]

Currently noticing a few problems with the car. I now have the white mayo in the oil filler tube and also in the sump as it’s on the bottom of the dip stick. (Oil changed at Christmas). I still have a weep of oil through the cam cover gasket despite fitting a new gasket and smearing it with RTV sealant. Also there is a rather thick white cloud emanating from the exhaust on warm up, which seems a bit thicker than the normal cold weather condensation.

When you drain the oil from the sump, how much oil should be left in the engine? When I replaced the cam cover gasket and took off the rocker cover it was full of oil, despite having just emptied the sump.

When the car is parked in the garage it stinks the place out with fumes for absolutely ages afterwards, much more than I seem to remember it did. However the car is still driving ok in spite of all of the above, and the leaking shock absorber…

[redmaestro]

Don't quote me because i'm no expert; but could it be the head gasket? Mayo in the oil can mean water is present in it (the head gasket went on my Efi last month, can the oil & pipes were coated in mayo).

Also, I think white smoke indicates water, and blue smoke is oil.

Do the heaters work? Is there too much pressure in the cooling system when you open the coolant cap when the engine is cold? Again, from experience these indicate head gasket - if the heaters dont work and there's too much pressure in the cooling system.

[G Force]

Hi, unfortunately the mayo problem is a design fault and is difficult to fix long term. The later models had the beather system totaly redesigned and this went a long way to curing the issues.

The oil leak you have will be made more difficult to cure if the breathers are blocked so cleaning out the breathers is the first step to fixing the oil leaks.

The only thing you can do is remove all the breather pipes and oil filler tube and clean out all the mayo. The oil seperator on the sump is more difficult to clean out thoroughly so if you are lucky enough to get hold of a new one then that will be more successful than just cleaning out the old one. A new oil filler cap is a must.

Both the oil seperator and the filler tube should have lagging jackets on. The breather pipes should be positioned as close to the engine block as posible and putting extra lagging on the pipes cant do any harm. If your breather set up does not have a small hose from the filler tube to the air filter box then you should try source the parts to fit this air bleed.

There is always a lot of oil around the camshaft with the covers removed so no worries there, It is best to have the engine hot before draining the oil and the use of forte oil flush is worth while.

As for the white smoke and smell I expect this is probably normal but if the breather system is blocked then the engine will run richer than normal which may acount for the smell.

Regards Gary :)

[BikerGran]

I have mayo in the oil filler - my mechanic says it's cos I don't drive far enought to work every day - only 7 miles, not enought to get the engine really warmed up, and no dual carriageway to give it a bit of a blast.

[D813YBB]

Therefore am I right in saying that in essence, there is no mechanical fault on the engine, and I just have to live with this. That’s fine if that is the case, however it’s strange I’ve never experienced this problem in 48000 miles and 16 years of ownership.
I’m not quite sure which hoses are the breather hoses. If I post a picture of the engine bay could someone arrow these for me?
I presume that soaking the oil filler cap in degreaser or gunk would be sufficient to clean it, as I read previously these are NLA.

[G Force]

Therefore am I right in saying that in essence, there is no mechanical fault on the engine, and I just have to live with this. That’s fine if that is the case, however it’s strange I’ve never experienced this problem in 48000 miles and 16 years of ownership.
I’m not quite sure which hoses are the breather hoses. If I post a picture of the engine bay could someone arrow these for me?
I presume that soaking the oil filler cap in degreaser or gunk would be sufficient to clean it, as I read previously these are NLA.

Hi, The problem with the mayo is it is a self perpetuating problem ;) the more it builds up the more it builds up if you see what I mean. So it can appear to be very bad very quickly.

If the breather caps are nla and an after market one cant be found then you will have to clean yours but the problem is that the gauze gets rusty and does not breath as it should.

You probably dont have a serious mechanical issue but the beathers sound as though they need attention. Post up a pic of the engine bay and I will have a go yes :)

[SimonR]

Therefore am I right in saying that in essence, there is no mechanical fault on the engine, and I just have to live with this. That’s fine if that is the case, however it’s strange I’ve never experienced this problem in 48000 miles and 16 years of ownership.
I’m not quite sure which hoses are the breather hoses. If I post a picture of the engine bay could someone arrow these for me?
I presume that soaking the oil filler cap in degreaser or gunk would be sufficient to clean it, as I read previously these are NLA.


Not that any of Gary's advice ever needs backing-up but I have had quite a lot of experience with the S-Series and its Mayo problems!

The breather pipe arrangement starts at the front of the sump, with the oil separator (metal tube/pipe arrangement) which is screwed on to the front of the sump itself. A pipe comes from the top of this and is pushed onto a T piece which then has one pipe going to the oil filler cap and the other going to the carb. On some cars there was also an air bleed pipe that went from the filler neck to the air pipe between the filter element and plenum chamber.

If you're thinking of keeping the car for any significant time then I'd seriously consider fitting the later breather system - it solves all the problems in this respect, by moving the separator to the back of the sump where it's a lot warmer and also doing-away with all those breather pipes that snake all around the engine bay. If you do want to go ahead with this mod you'll need a new separator, right-hand cam-carrier cover, and sump, along with a few other smaller items.

The most probably reason that you're only seeing this problem now is either that you've changed oil brand or that you're driving shorter journeys in colder weather than normal. I found Castrol GTX to be one of the worst oils for Mayo - a week after I changed my oil with this stuff the breather was completely blocked and my oil seals damaged beyond repair. Needless to say when I rebuilt the engine with new seals I changed the breather system....

I'm due to write about the breather system upgrade in Monstro sometime soon, but if you want info on how to change it then drop me a line.

All the best

Simon R.

PS If you're wanting to clean the oil filler cap out you might find that the bottom will separate from the top and you can then remove the gauze and attack it with a paintbrush and some petrol/parafin/gunk.

[BikerGran]

Handy to know that GTX isn't the best oil for these engines but what have you found to be good? I'm about to buy some oil, might as well get something the car likes?

I had this same problem with my Citroen BX, it's not just a Maestro thing!

[SimonR]

Hi Bobbi,

I used to swear by Unipart 10w40 Silver Semi Synthetic oil but can't seem to find it any more.

I've got a different part synthetic oil in JOE at the moment and have had no problems so far.

Basically don't use GTX!

It really is *very* important that the breather doesn't get blocked because crank-case pressure will eventually knacker all the oil seals and you'll have to keep topping the engine oil up as it drips out the bottom. Not fun.

[Steve H]

I find a lot of mayo builds up in the breather system as well: noticed it was particularly bad a month back. Took the car on a long 450 mile round trip and this cleared the mayo out completely.:)

I've often thought the existing foam lagging around the filler tube has long since been soaked/saturated with oil from the drips when filling over the years. This must lower its heat retaining properties drastically, so this is another good reason for re-lagging. Must do it to mine sometime.:rolleyes:

Incidentally I managed to get a new filler cap from Helfrauds about two months ago, though this of course may have been old stock.

Anybody know if the modification recommended in Haynes to add on an extra pipe to the filler tube actually works? Anyone done this?

steve H

[G Force]

Anybody know if the modification recommended in Haynes to add on an extra pipe to the filler tube actually works? Anyone done this

Hi, The pipe from the filler tube to the air filter was one of the first service fixes when the cars were still in manufacture. Sadly it does not fix the problem but it does slow down the build up, so for that it is worth doing.

The modification involved drilling a hole in the filler tube and brazing a piece of brake tubing to the filler tube. Then a hole was drilled in the plastic outlet elbow of the air filter box, into which a grommet and stub pipe were inserted. A piece of rubber tubing then connects the two. A lagging jacket was then fitted to the oil separator and filler tube. The idea was that the lagging in conjunction with the fresh air bleed would reduce condensation forming inside the engine.

It should now be quite easy to find oil filler tubes with the stub pipe already in, on scrap yard cars? and if you can get hold of an air filter body top off of say a 216 EFI or 2.0 EFI with the small stub pipe then no drilling or brazing would be needed.

The only sure way to fix the problem long term is as SimonR says is to take the trouble to convert the breathers to the later type, which is quite involved but definitely worth the trouble if you are looking for longevity.

Cheers Gary :)

[D813YBB]

Interesting point about the change of oil brand. I used to use Castrol Magnatec, but put Halfords own brand in at the last oil change. This roughly ties in with the appearance of the mayo. Unipart oil is difficult to get so which oil is recommended for this engine? I'll look into getting new lagging on at the next oil change. I'm sure the current lagging is well past its use by date. Conversion to the later type sounds beyond my capabilities.

[mike maestro]

if tha gauze hs gone you can replace it with stainless steel wire wool or o bronze wire wool both work quite well and don't corrode quickly rgds mike

[BikerGran]

I used to swear by Unipart 10w40 Silver Semi Synthetic oil but can't seem to find it any more.


Was Unipart a part of the Austin-Rover empire? Cos I was looking for a Unipart supplier to enquire about some part or other but couldn't find any on the net, and the link from the main site doesn't work now either. Maybe Unipart is dead......

[ChrisM]

You can still get Unipart oils (and many other things) from Partco :)

[SimonR]

Conversion to the later type sounds beyond my capabilities.

Nope, it's actually a fairly simple job once you have got the parts. The fun part is getting the parts in the first place!

If you can find a late 1.6 Maestro (or Montego - see below) (Late F, G, H, J plate) with the oil filler in the cam carrier cover then it has all the parts you need. It's finding the donor that takes the time. All parts are interchangeable between the Maestro and Montego except the breather rail and elbow, due to a different gearbox adaptor plate.

Just take from that car:
Sump
Oil separator (which replaces the RH stiffening bar that attaches to the top of the sump and the side of the inlet manifold) and associated pipes (attached to sump and carb)
Breather rail (metal pipe that goes across the back of the engine) + rubber hose
Breather rail elbow + Bolts (bolts into the gearbox adaptor plate)
Cam Carrier cover with the filler cap in it.

Fitting the parts took me a morning and involved jacking the car up and supporting it on axle stands to get the sump off but it's really not a difficult job at all.

You can see the new parts of the breather system in this (http://pages.zoom.co.uk/wonkeydonkey/F153JUE/Restoration/EngineIn/Big/ManifoldsOn.jpg) photo (Engine removed for clarity).

Of course, if you're doing a belt and braces job you might as well find a low-mileage car and take the unleaded cylinder head and ECU to convert your car to unleaded...!

Seriously though, the breather upgrade is well worth a bit of effort.

[e692wtt]

Duckhams Oils were reputed to be 'the best' for minimal 'Mayo' production as per Car mechanics Mag in the mid 90s, and it holds true now - I use nothing else :) . I found GTX Oil to produce momumental amounts of Mayo, and most other oils aren't much better.

My Monty, 1.6L 88MY, has the 'air hose from filler pipe to air intake' mod - when I got him the crankcase vent hoses were all clogged and all this hose did was spew vast amounts of Mayo into the base of the air filter housing... the usual oil seals around the Camshaft still blew out :banghead: . It's not a complete success ;) .

[mgdavid]

Hi, unfortunately the mayo problem is a design fault and is difficult to fix long term. The later models had the beather system totaly redesigned and this went a long way to curing the issues.
.......
The only thing you can do is remove all the breather pipes and oil filler tube and clean out all the mayo. The oil seperator on the sump is more difficult to clean out thoroughly so if you are lucky enough to get hold of a new one then that will be more successful than just cleaning out the old one. .......
Regards Gary :)

I do reconditioned sump breathers - email or PM me if you want one....
david.smith@stones.com

[D813YBB]

Finally borrowed the digi camera from work and took some pictures of the oil pipe work.

1. Picture of the oil filler tube with the cap off….anyone for Hellmans?
2. Picture of the oil pipes – seems fairly obvious which pipes they are but would appreciate confirmation.
3. Picture confirming my car has the extra pipe to the air filter
4. Wider view of the engine bay
5. Picture showing what I think is the oil cleaner (between the two centre spark plug leads)

[G Force]

Hi, You have correctly identified the oil seperator (pic 1) The breather hoses are straight forward one from seperator to tee piece, then tee piece to oil filler cap and tee piece running under air filter round to the carburettor. (pic 2)

Regards gary :)

[D813YBB]

Thanks for that Gary. I'm due to change the oil again very shortly as the car has done almost 5000 miles since the Christmas service. So after I drain the oil from the sump, I then remove all the pipework, whats the most effective method to clear out the slop from the pipes?

[mgdavid]

Start with about 1 metre of thick electrical cable (not flex, it needs to be stiff). Bare back 8 to 10 cm of wire at one end. Take a piece of rag about 15cm square, scrunch 2 opposite sides together, bind the bare wire round the middle and fold the 2 ends of rag back together. Then feed the other end of the cable down a hose and out the other end, pull it through. Repeat until the pipe is clean or the rag is so gloopy you need to replace it with a clean bit. Takes 10 minutes to do the lot and costs nothing.

[e692wtt]

In all seriousness, use a Duckhams Oil (I use Q 20w/50 in Monty, Mk I 1.6L with 150k on the clock but not too smoky :laugh: - and the 'Hellmans' is minimal even though the engine only does 4 miles each way to work, which is the worst sort of use for 'Mayo' production) and you won't have a mayo problem any more :) .

I'd say that Duckhams 10w/40 won't cause any mayo problem either - I'm going to use this in my 'new' 1.6L 'Fleagle, another Mk I 1.6L with just 25k on the clock.

Clean out the breather pipes as David says, check they are clear when you check the fluids (on a 'just in case' basis ;) ) and use a Duckhams Oil, and they won't block again. Easier than fitting the later breather system - it works for me :) .

[C191JOE]

I helped Simon r with the repostioning of the various gubbins he describes and although it may seem daunting it all went smoothly - it's just a matter of being logical and methodical and giving yourself plenty of time to allow for the (occasional) snags. Rare, of course. and as he says, sourcing the parts in the first place.
(burgundy wearing off now!)

[D813YBB]

Update:

I changed the oil, oil filter and oil filler cap last weekend. The Hellmans was becoming really bad, so I removed the pipe from the oil separator to the carb which was absolutely full of the stuff. To clean it out I stuck a piece of old aerial cable through it and blew through it enough times until it was reasonably clear. After flushing and on reassembly I refilled with Castrol GTX Magnatec. (Couldn’t find a shop selling Duckhams).
On Wednesday I did a 337mile return trip down to Grimsby for work, and on inspection of the filler cap and filler tube on arriving home, no trace of the Hellmans could be seen. So fingers crossed it appears to have gone. In addition a slight hesitancy in the engine when cold has also disappeared, which must have been caused by the blockages.