Alternative Fuels

[BIGLAD]

Has anyone tried running their Maestro/Montego's on alternative fuels i.e Vegetable Oil etc? I have been looking at various websites on this subjects but as always, seem to get varying and conflicting answers. The general feel on some of these websites is that Direct Injection engines don't like it too much! But DI Turbo diesels do!
CAV pumps do not like "thicker" fuels but Bosch ones do- (thats good!)
There are some people that run on a 50/50 derv/veg oil mix on the website using the prima unit in various vehicles with no problems i.e Montego, Sherpa etc.(so they reckon).
I know that it isnt a case of just "bunging" it in the tank etc but wondered if anyone had any experience, good or bad?
Thanks BIGLAD:rolleyes:
P.s if any one has and doesn't want their opinions looked at by H.M Customs & Excise then just email me direct. I dont work there honest!

[e692wtt]

Well, there goes the Customs and Excise joke...

Diesel car tested a Golf Ecomatic on 'biodiesel' and reported performance 'the same as' if not 'better than' pump Diesel. You know the implications of not paying Duty on such fuel...

Diesel cars will burn anything loosely related to Diesel in character. A neighbour uses 'white diesel' imported from Ireland (less Duty to be paid but passes a 'red diesel chemical test') and he will give me the details of his supplier should I ever own a Diesel car (but I'm part way through a 25 year plan with my Monty 1.6, which knackers this particular avenue of moneysaving). Diesel cars will burn the waste oil from your local chippie, but the fuel's lubricating qualities for the Diesel Pump may not be as good as pump Diesel, and the fuel filter will clog up with carbon particles and 'scraps' very quickly, but mixing this with pump Diesel will give performance as per standard pump Diesel. Food for thought? Ha ha...

As Mr Bridger says in 'The Italian Job' - "I hope he likes pasta, I believe they serve it four times a day in the Italian prisons". I don't believe they have access to Maestro.org.uk in UK prisons, which may well just possibly be a factor to consider. A neighbour (now moved) ran a Carpet Fitting business, and HM Customs & Excise confiscated his year-old Peugeot Boxer Van after they found Red Diesel in the van's fuel tank, which, to misquote Derek in 'Bad Taste', "buggered up his plans for conquering the Universe". Tread very carefully, even if your car can use the stuff...

The other other Rich.
:eek:

[E_T_V]

It is legal to run your car on chip fat, and anything else that'll burn so long as you pay the excise duty on the fuel you use. You pay the duty which is something like 20 or 30 p per litre and you are quite entitled to use it. So if you happened to run a chipshop you could fuel your vehicles for 35p a litre. I can't remember where I got the info but if I find it again I'll post it up. You can also remove the red dye from red diesel but I'm afraid that technique I'm not going to share on here nor would I recommend using it either! :cool:

There is some interesting info here though for people to take a look at:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html

Hope it is of some help

Dan

[Mat_C]

If you could upgrade *all* the rubber in your fuel system, I can see no reason why you coudn't run a petrol on cellulose thinners (aprox. 106RON octane!).

I'm pretty sure that there are now TWO dyes in red diesel now - one visible and one invisible - makes it easier to detect 'laundered' fuel.

Heating oil is now being dyed yellow (morzine IIRC).

You can put vegtable oil straight into your tank (MAX 50/50). I wouldn't do it myself but I know that it can be done! The big giveaway is the smell from the exhaust.

[e692wtt]

You're quite right re using any fuel as long as duty has been paid on it. I've never quite understood *how* you pay the duty on your 'home made' fuel, nor how you prove what you owe. Mind you, if you're caught using 'red diesel' on the road, HM Customs & Excise extrapolate back 'some time' to calculate the duty you have avoided, I believe on the basis that you have used 'red diesel' since youaquired the vehicle (and you cannot prove otherwise, can you???) hence a very big bill and, often, your vehicle is confiscated.

I'm not sure whether 'red diesel' contains 2 chemicals (one visible, one hidden) but even if there has been 'red diesel' in your tank many fill ups ago, the chemical test that Customs & Excise use will determine that fact even though the diesel fuel 'looks' ok. I'm fairly sure it is just one chemical, but may be wrong. Interesting about the domestic fuel oil being dosed with an 'indicator' as well...

The other other Rich.

[Liam]

As of about three weeks ago I have been using alternative fuel in my diesel maestro! I briefly mentioned it on the old forums. I use a 50/50 mix of pump diesel with domestic heating oil with no problems at all. Have noticed no loss in performoance or any loss of MPG. Heating oil costs under 20p litre, so with a mix of the two fuels, effectively I'm running the car for less than 50p litre at 50MPG.

As for the yellow dye in heating oil, I noticed that it had a slight yellow tinge but just assumed that this was its natural colour, perhaps not! But the chances of getting the tank checked on a non agrigcultual or commercial vehicle must be so small. I've not known it to happen to anyone. But that doesn't mean you won't get caught I spose.

[e692wtt]

I believe that the three most popular places to get 'checked for red diesel' are at Marinas, agricultural shows and at the races where one owns a race horse. The thinking goes, I guess, that boats use 'red diesel' so boat owners may 'just possibly' be tempted to fill their cars with the cheap 'red diesel', farmers and horse owners equally will possibly have access to 'red diesel'. Cynical, me? Reducing people to the lowest common denominator ain't any less cynical.

I know a company director from a soap factory, where 'red diesel' is available for the fork lift trucks, and he used to top up his Merc' every day with a couple of gallons of 'red diesel', and he owned a race horse amd towed it to race tracks and parked in the paddock. He never got caught, to the best of my knowledge, despite taking the p*ss as above and *then* attending horse races as an owner...

Ther was a report in the Manchester Evening News, recently, that roughly 10% of Vans and Lorries stopped at random near Manchester City Centre (on the A6010 'middle ring road' Kirkmanshulme Lane near Belle Vue) tested positive for 'red diesel' in their tanks. This was a concerted campaign, mind you. If domestic fuel oil is 'dosed' yellow, I'd watch my step. If you get stopped and your fuel tested, you will probably get your car confiscated. Irish 'white diesel' should be available near you, it's just the case of finding where... if I get a diesel car, I'll be ok... the most unlikely people can probably tell you...

The other other Rich.

[Mat_C]

Liam - Even though you're running (strictly off-road :) ) on 50/50 heating oil and diesel, YOU MUST add some oil to the heating oil.

Pump diesel has an added lubricant for the fuel pump - heating oil is a very "dry" oil. Some people use engine oil, however, I would use a little of 2-stroke.

Heating oil also has an higher energy density, hence the better performance and MPG.

As for the two dye's in red diesel - it's never been directly mentioned but one of C&E's documents that I read inferred it! There are three ways to remove the dye, but landered fuel can always be detected.

[e692wtt]

Regarding 2 seperate 'indicator chemicals' in 'red diesel', I can vaguely remember from Diesel Car mag an item on 'red diesel' and you may well be right. As I say, if one used 'red diesel' in one's car and then used ten tankfuls of DERV diesel, the 'invisible indicator chemical' will still show a positive reaction when extremely diluted and indicate that 'red diesel' has been used in the fairly-recent past even though the car's diesel sample 'looks ok'.

One of the byproducts of laundered fuel is extremely nasty. I remember a report on the regional news about a section of road on an Industrial Estate that had been dissolved, it appeared that the nasty byproduct had been spilled when it was dumped (in plastic containers that then melted...). Oops...

DERV diesel (if not all diesel) is treated with 'lubricants' to stop the Injection Pump wearing or seizing, especially nowadays with the lower levels of Sulphur in diesel fuel after refining that are dictated by the EU. One can always buy products from companies like 'Millers Oils' of West Yorkshire as fuel additives to add yourself (Diesel Car researchers found this firm made the most effective additives in the 1990s). I wouldn't expect heating oil to be treated to the same standards regarding lubricity, and so you may well find your Injector Pump wears much quicker.

The other other Rich.

[Liam]

Some interesting posts in this thread. Thanx for the advice Mat_C, I will throw a bit of 2-stroke oil in my tank as well.