dealing with door rust

[ben rawlings]

my ledbury maestro has suffered from the usual rust in the back corners of the front doors.

as i am starting to drive the ledbury in september on a prvisional licence i want to get the bodywork sorted and i decided to start on the doors.

basically ive grinded the door skin away where the rust was and i can now see inside the door.

now what do you people think....shall i just fill it or sahll i get it done properly and get a new piece of metal welded in at a bodyshop. also can anyone tell me roughly how much it would be to get metal welded in at a bodyshop in both back corners of the front doors as the passenger side door and the drivers door have rusted.


cheers in advance

[Jack]

Do it properly - it'll last longer and look better. Having said that, the body shop may distort the panel when welding so....

My J-reg diesel has immaculate door bottoms. Why? The old codger who had it from new before me took the door cards off and wiped vaseline over the internals. The only bit where there is any rust is next to the window pillar above the handle, which I believe is a fairly common rust spot too (so give that a good coating of wax if you can).

[ben rawlings]

thats interesting...ive heared about putting waxoil etc in the doors but never vaseline. good tip that.

[E_T_V]

Its all the same theory. Keep the water away from the door seams and it'll last a lot longer.

[robin]

Any thoughts on this one?

Have cleaned up some doors and had them respayed. They've already been waxoiled down the seams. Do I fill the seam with Vaseline before putting the barrier and cards back on?

Robin

[H48HPE]

its the same idea really, just keeping the water out of the metal - because the paint on the inside of the doors isn't up to the job.

if i were you I'd get loads of waxoyle in there, but make sure its dead clean first - so it sticks to the surface. then i'd top it up every couple of years with a rinse out, dry and more wax.

the good thing with waxoyle over vaseline is it comes in a spray can so you can blast it into the corners under pressure.

its unlikely you would block them, but make sure the drain holes are clear after!

[AndyB]

I am curious as to Ben's actual solution - having a similar repair to do on my Maestro No2. If welding a 'patch' repair that reaches the bottom edge, what's the best way to deal with the bottom edge.
If you use 0.9 or 1.0mm steel, this is too sharp on its own (and probably not stiff enough anyway). The original skin is wrapped up to enclose the inner panel return, and I guess factory pressed together with a sealant. It isn't welded here is it ?
If the inner has gone here as well, what's the best way as a repair ?
I was aiming to cope with some distortion by redressing and final fairing with filler, then repaint the whole lower up to the trim.
So who's done this - any tips ? !

When it's done - I used to use waxoyl but am tending to prefer the Bilt-Hamber Dynax S50 big aerosol. This comes with both a conventional spray head AND a head pre-fitted with fitted extension tube and 4 direction end nozzle. They also recommend a spray with Ferrasol first (a very thin oil) This penetrates the spot weld flanges and draws in the Dynax S50. I'm impressed with this stuff. Not cheap, but nor is waxoyl !

[ratty]

I'll be doing Gooonies doors soon so I'll put up pics on how to make a fit the corner pieces if you can wait a few weeks.

If you cant wait then make an oversized patch leaving enough metal to fold around the edge of the door frame, cut a v in the corner so the 2 sides can fold around the door frame and not over lap at the rear. Use a door skin crimping tool to secure the edges ( a hammer and dolly can be used), then tack weld the join a few spots at a time to lower the risk of distortion, grind back slowly and admire your work

[H48HPE]

When it's done - I used to use waxoyl but am tending to prefer the Bilt-Hamber Dynax S50 big aerosol. This comes with both a conventional spray head AND a head pre-fitted with fitted extension tube and 4 direction end nozzle. They also recommend a spray with Ferrasol first (a very thin oil) This penetrates the spot weld flanges and draws in the Dynax S50. I'm impressed with this stuff. Not cheap, but nor is waxoyl !

That sounds good stuff - might have to get some of that.

The Bilt-hamber deox gell sounds a good product too; ideal for dealing with bits of surface rust under the car prior to painting.

[H48HPE]

Back on topic - I imagine the problem with rusty door skins is that the actual door frame its attached to will probably be going rusty too at the joint. I know this is a definete problem on mine, the whole of the bottom back door needs rebuilding. I want to do it as a welding project, but in the mean time its getting filled to make it presentable for the MOT.

Andy

[secubis3]

I did my two front doors too. I removed the rusty metal, sprayed the inner seams with marine rust converter I got from my local boat yard chandlery. I filled with engine oil and toped off with Comma waxoyl. I then filled the gap with heavy gauge wire and fibre glass. That was two years ago and nothing has dared to show it's face on the doors.
I'm going to redo the waxoyl this month, if it stops bloody raining that is.

Cheers
S

[H48HPE]

I did my two front doors too. I removed the rusty metal, sprayed the inner seams with marine rust converter I got from my local boat yard chandlery. I filled with engine oil and toped off with Comma waxoyl. I then filled the gap with heavy gauge wire and fibre glass. That was two years ago and nothing has dared to show it's face on the doors.
I'm going to redo the waxoyl this month, if it stops bloody raining that is.

Cheers
S

9 years ago I put waxoyle in all 4 of my doors, its done a good job protecting 3 of the doors; only the rear o/s door is bad, and that was already dead 9 years ago... I can definitely reccomend it!

[AndyB]

Ratty - be great if you could post up some pics of the steps.
The crimping tool - would molegrips progressively do the job ? I am not familiar with this propper tool.
But other comments are correct too - the inner flanges on my doors have gone too in places so I guess I'd need to rebuild these first to have something to wrap round !
I'll take some pics of the doors as they stand - for you guys to have a laugh and point at ! (but maybe some advice).
Is it best to use 0.9 ?
If it unbolts - i'm fine. If it's wires, I'm fine. Bodywork is not my favourite.
Cutting out rust in the roof channels where the insert rubber trim goes and welding inserts back has been my job over the last 2 weeks - damned fiddly.

[H48HPE]

if its not totally rotten your door frame might respond well to some deox-gell?

[digital efi]

As Ben's original thread is over 6 years old, perhaps he could update us on what he had done and how well it lasted..........

I would also like to know if door skins are available anywhere?

My van has a rust-free door with a big crease along and down it, so it doesn't lend itself particularly well to beating and skimming. But it would be a shame to scrap a generally rust-free door.

[H48HPE]

last time I checked Rimmer Bros had both complete doors and door skins for sale...

as for Ben; I don't think he's been on logged on for about a year; maybe if you email him he may respond? He used to be very active on here a few years ago; but must be having a break from it??

Andy

[H48HPE]

I've just been looking on the Rimmers website - seems they are out of door skins; and they say they're out of stock for front doors - although where are they going to get more stock from as I thought they had it all - unless x-part stock them too?

Andy

[AndyB]

Damm - didn't notice this thread was 5 years old !!
We could do with a section in this site for regular repairs and fixes - ageless solutions !

Regardless, I'll still take some pics of my doors.

I also looked for skins some while back - though to the unpracticed I'm more confident of a welding repair below the trim line than re-skinning the whole thing.

[H48HPE]

You could do a Blog about your repairs in the Blog section... It's been mentioned elsewhere we dont do enough Blogs on here...

[Maria]

If anyone finds themselves doing a door skin, this is what the tool:

http://www.frost.co.uk/automotive-bodywork/door-skinning-tool.html

I've heard people say that they can cause dents because the pressure's in a small area. I do have one of these, but haven't had a chance to try it out so I can't give any reviews.

[PhilD]

How about a compromise between filling and welding? I would not repair any structural area this way because it is clearly weaker than welding, but I have repaired small sections of several door bottoms over the years by fabricating and pop-rivetting new sections of metal in followed by a thin skim of filler on the visible areas.
While this is not as permanent as welding sections in or replacing the door skin and would probably be considered ‘bodging’ by some, I think it would provide a longer lasting result than simply applying filler, matting and wire mesh, because you only end up with a thin section of filler attached to something which is securely fastened. There is much less likelihood of the filler cracking and breaking away at the edges of the repair because of vibration and shock each time the door is closed.
Another advantage is that you can thoroughly apply paint/rust proofer to both sides and all edges of the old and new metal and in recesses before fixing the repair section in place. With a welded repair you can only do this afterwards and can’t usually see all surfaces, plus the welding process itself burns off some of the coatings in the areas surrounding the welds, which may have been well protected before the repair.
The main difficulty with fixing this way is in making the repair visually acceptable on the door skin, where the rivet heads would be visible. I have got round this by tapping the areas where the rivets are going to be fitted with a ball-pein hammer to slightly indent the surface before riveting so that the head is then below the final thin skim of filler.

[ratty]

Maria I use a simular tool to do door skins. The trick is to use a 1 inch wide strip of hardboard to spread the load and dont try to bend it over in one go, close the tool a small amount the whole length and repeat until it is all done. Maybe 6 or 7 times to complete the work