Will not go

[redviking48]

Hi I live in New Zealand and must just about have the last Montego on the road here, it is a 87EFI, the problem I have is the motor will not fire, I have check the cam timing, replaced the dizzie and rotor, I have spark at the plugs and appear to have fuel in the clyinders but am not to sure with the EFI timing for the injectors are correct. Can someone over there help me please. (prior to this problem I was fiddling with he air flow sensor wiring behind the air filter)

[Crank]

If the problem started after fiddling with the air flow wiring, probably to do with that! Why were you messing with the wiring? Some other problem?

Andre

[redviking48]

Thanks for replying Andre, no there was no other problem, I was just trying to figure out the electronic system for future reference, as there is not to much information for these cars anymore in this part of the world.
I am wondering if the TDC sensor maybe the problem, if anyone can tell me what actually is the function of the TDC sensor, it may help me to pinpoint the problem. By the way I have also replaced the ignition control system in the process of finding the problem.

[E_T_V]

The TDC sensor is probably the crankshart sensor which tells the ignition when to fire. This caused a problem on our S-series engine it turned out to be a loose connection on the connector plug. Hope you get it sorted, sorry I can't be more help but I'm unfamiliar with the EFI.

[redviking48]

I decided it must be the crankshaft sensor at fault so I spent all day going across town by bus (many buses) and brought myself a new one. I put it in and now I don't have any spark at all, tomorrow I will replace the connection and maybe it will then fire up.

[redviking48]

Just had another look at things, I have spark at the main lead but not at the plugs. Question ? does it matter on what rotation of the crankshalf you set the cam/distrib' shalf to, the crank has 2 rotations to 1 of the camshalf.

[E_T_V]

ok, It is always more difficult solving problems without seeing them so here we go from scratch.....

Take out all spark plugs and lie them on the metal engine somewhere, plug them into the plug leads again. Get someone to turn the engine over (it'll sound funny without the plugs in) and make sure they are all sparking healthily. If they are then it is either a fuel problem or ignition timing.

If they don't spark then do the same with the lead from the coil. Get some well insulated pliers and hold it a centimetre or so from the engine block. Again get someone to turn the engine over. If it sparks here then the distributer cap/rotor are most likely at fault. (an easy fix) If this doesn't spark something in the ignition system is on the blink.

I think this is the stage you are at, (but I thought it was best to check to be sure)

If the engine was running fine before and you've not disturbed the distributer then it isn't likely to be the ignition timing being out.
If you've been playing with the distributer then this indeed could be the problem. It is always worth first checking that all the plug leads are on in the right order though as it is an easy mistake to make.

If you haven't been doing things to the engine and the engine has just stopped with a spark at the coil but not at the plugs then I'd suspect the rotor arm or distributer cap.

If you have been playing with the timing you could quite possibly have the timing 180 degrees out as you mentioned. The quickest way to see if this is the problem is to swap the plug leads around (can't remember which way off of the top of my head) rather than change the timing back again. Even if the timing is 180degrees out then you should still get sparks at the plugs just in the wrong order

Hope this makes some sense
Cheers

Dan

[redviking48]

Update on the no go; well it is now running, after looking at the disty, leads. spark pugs,carefully resetting the timing, and cleaning the step down motor and housing. It is running rougthy and I think the problem is in the air flow sensor, when I disconect it, it runs smoothly and faster for about 10 seconds and then cuts out, I must have damaged the sensor when I was fiddling with the wiring. when I short out the spark plugs all the plugs the motor slows down and then recover when the screw driver is removed, this I think also backs up my theory as this proves it is not mechancial(eg burn valves etc)I think. Can any one tell me how to check out the airflow sensor please.

[redviking48]

On reflection I would descripe the running of the motor as if it was a car fitted with an old fashion carburator with the choke fully out,very rich and just about choking it self, I tryed removing several of the injector connections and once again the engine levelled out and then stalled like when the airflow sensor was disconnected. I am now certain I must have stuffed up the airflow sensor and therefore this could be the reason for over fuelling.

[Crank]

I'm coming over to Auckland next week. Where abouts are you.

Andre

[redviking48]

Hi Andre, I live in West Auckland, if you like to E Mail me on redviking48@hotmail.com we can make arrangements, look forward to meeeting you.

[redviking48]

Update, I had an brillant idea, I disconnected the wires to the airflow sensor and place a resistor between the live wire and the wire that controls (presumeraly)the injector settings, I used a 21watt bulb and the motor actually inproved slightly, then I increased the resistance with 2x21walt bulbs and the motor run too lean (on the right track I thought), but now the injectors will not operate at all. On checking the circuit to the injectors I notice there is power to both terminals of the injector instead of one side as before. I seam to be digger a bigger hole for my self with my fiddling.
Fortunually for me the garage/workshop on the corner has a monty motor 2.0 turbo on his floor, I think I might convert the injector system over to a carbie system using the inlet manifold and carbie off this motor, I intend to buy this motor to keep for parts as parts are getting hard to find n this part of the world.

[redviking48]

My mind is made up, out with the EFI and in with the carbie, and while I am at it, out will come the drive shafts for boot replacement and for easy access to the lower manifold bolts. Also I will remove the steering rack and replace the seals in it as the top one leaks and fills the interior of the car up with oil. My WOF is due, so while the car is up on blocks and not going anywhere some minor rust repairs will be carried out as well. Hopefully the car will become mobile and look good for some time.

[Crank]

I've sent you an email.
Are you ditching the injection setup because of these problems? If so, I'm sure its something pretty simple, usually is.
You'll be losing a few horsepower going to the carb, and the electrics and loom are different if you're using the autochoke carb. Fitting a manual choke carb would solve that, and in my opinion is far better anyway, but it's still worth trying to solve the original problem. Perhaps I can shed some light on it when we meet.
What sort of manual do you have? I could bring over my Haynes manual if it helps.

Andre

[redviking48]

Hi, I am nearly ready to go, I have converted the fuel system over to a carbie. Can any one tell me which pipe on the carbie ie. the lower or upper one is the fuel inlet, also can someone tell me which of the five wires connected to the carbie are the positive and earth for the (I presume)the isoaltion valve. thank you for all the help so far, Eric

[bandycat]

my advice is to either put the efi back in or to just leave it till andre gets over to you and then sort it out between you.:) :)

[redviking48]

Well it is still not going. one would think taking it back to the most basic of fuel systems it would go. I think the carbie must be stuffed, when first put the car started but soon flooded the motor even filling up the crankcase with petrol, reason figured out pump pressure to high, fixed that problem and even after removing the carb half a dozen times to clean, still no fuel coming out of the carbie, fuel going in and thats about all. I only what my car to go.

[redviking48]

Good news, it finally going, I had decided if the thing was not going to start today the rubbish tip was looking good, I turned the key and guess what it coughed, hicupped and started. All I have to do now is to fix a oil leak (reseal the tappit cover)sort out the vaccum lines. Friday I will tackel the power steer unit and all he mechanocal work will be do. What a performace, 4 weeks this car took to go. Thanks for all you help.

[redviking48]

Update on the no go, the car is finally going and purring like a pussy cat. Unfortunnely the valve guide seals have decided to let go and after 5 mintues the royal navy would be proud of its smoke screen abilities, so off with the head and replace the seals. While I am at it the might as well fit the turbo I have, then it will have a it of sting to it

[redviking48]

just had a visit form Andre, he suggested the needle valve in the carbie and the valve guide seas and it should be as good as gold.
We are nearly there, the should be finally up and running like it should hiopefully this coming weekend, then I have what you call the MOT to face, we call it the WOF (warrent of fitness) has to be done every 6 months here.

[redviking48]

After many weeks and much dollars I have given up on it, I have tried every thing and the sod of a car refuses to go, so its off to the dump. Now what do I replace it with, maybe a good Ausie built car, like a ford or a holden, I have run those cars in the pass as taxis have had driven close to a million Kms in them without any problems, I guess that tells me something.

[Jonathan]

A bit of patience goes a long way with these cars. I should know!

[redviking48]

I know patience I have plenty of it, but the beast will not go. But i will have another go, I will take the head off and see what is going on inside sometime later this week