Turbo Fuel Pump??

[MGTurbo469]

Hello everyone I'm the newest member I think!

I am the new proud Owner of MGMT No. 469, Flame Red on H-Plate 85k miles, pretty good condition all round besides a few niggly things as is the way things go. I am 21 years old working in Cardiff and living not far away. My 1st car was a MGMT (F129 SWC), which was stolen one day from outside my office in the University Hospital of Wales in Cardiff. It was at the time my pride and joy, and since then I haven't been the same! My love for the Maestro started a long way back when my dad bought an MG1600 god-knows-how long ago, hence my first car HAD to out-do him, and I did.

Have only had this car for about 4 miles as I'm still getting it ready for the road again after a year or so doing nothing.

So I ask yr help!
My apologies if ppl have answered these questions elsewhere on the site.

On acceleration --- all seems good until when absolutely flat out for a few secs, then it jerks slightly and proceeds to empty fuel tank (or have a bloody good go) --- any ideas? Fuel pump/filter?

Headlining --- as with my last MGMT, headlining has literally had enough. Any cheap suppliers for these known to anyone? How tricky is it to fit/finish?


Clutch --- overall feel is good and it does what it says on the tin but its a little noisy on depressing pedal (no gearchange / clutch-height problems, just this annoying soft grinding noise) --- clutch cable???


Would appreciate any info / help that anyone can shine on these "issues".

Looking forward to getting this little beauty sorted.

[TurboMG]

Head linings can be had from rover for about £90, your jerking problem could be caused by so many things (except the fuel filter because there isnt one), check that the carb vent valve is closed with the ignition on, check the hose that loops over from the front to the back of the carb, check the ECU vac line, make sure all the fuel hoses are connected properly and not split, if the cars been sat for a while it could have some manky petrol in it as well.

[D87 SMW]

If the car's been laid up for a while, make sure the plugs, oil & Filter, air filter and carb are ok. F170 had a little niggle the other day, which was the rotor arm. Try cleaning that up, as well as the contacts in the distributor.

As for your headining, there is a cheap one on eBay at the moment, second hand mind. MG Maestro Headlining (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10414&item=2491598263&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)

HTH.

[MGTurbo469]

Thanks for your help and ideas both, will investigate further over weekend and post findings. Looking forward to getting this one right, the annoying niggly things I didn't bother with last time sort of spoiled my enjoyment a little.

Looks like this car has cross-drilled front discs as well, am assuming these are more than likely the AutoWorks ones, are these about as good as you can get for an MGMT for stopping power or are motobuild ones still available/any good? Remember looking at the larger crossdrilled items a couple of years ago but understand motobuild are no longer interested in us :banghead:

Thanks again
Alex
:)

[Fast Guy]

On acceleration --- all seems good until when absolutely flat out for a few secs, then it jerks slightly and proceeds to empty fuel tank (or have a bloody good go)

What do you mean it proceeds to empty the fuel tank? the gauge goes down? you start running very rich? you smell fuel?

The only problem I had which caused a similar problem was one of the hoses attatched to the fuel filter was leaking, so the engine wasn't getting enough fuel. You might just have a leaky hose somewhere?
Alternately you might be running too much boost and it's starting to det.

[MGTurbo469]

Thanks all for comments again! :)

..Well as the turbo spins up all is fine, but as the boost comes on, the revs die down and no response on throttle, turbo releases boost cleanly. Fuel guage drops then recovers (possible fauly gauge though, electrics on this need overhaul to be honest). No strong smell of fuel, only very slight. After a short time can start to climb revs until again it happens.

Have looked at all hoses under bonnet and only one blatently split is oil breather which have now replaced. Air filter looks very new, has had new oil/filter now around 20 miles ago. Will re-investigate this evening if weather holds. This car is manual choke as well which I am not overly happy with but thats a different matter. As far as I am aware car is running standard boost. Petrol is fresh in on Friday night and nearly ran can empty to get rid of old stuff.

What is the location of the fuel filter?? Really should check this ASAP.

Failing all this will have to bite the bullet and take it to local MG Rover dealer :horror: better warm that wallet up eh?! :censored:

Thanks again!
Alex

[J51 AEV]

think i might be the newest here?? lol

any way i have just taken on a project maestro turbo (not a real one ) that has sat for the best part of two years, i have a lot of trouble with its fueling and i belive it is being caused by the fuel presure regulator, so it might be worth checking that as it is a rubber diapharm which in time can break down, i found a place call eurocarb who can supply new item (will post details later)

[E_T_V]

Welcome. If you are having any problems during the restoration we'll all do our best to help you out.

Welcome to the mad house.

[G Force]

..Well as the turbo spins up all is fine, but as the boost comes on, the revs die down and no response on throttle, turbo releases boost cleanly. After a short time can start to climb revs until again it happens.

Hi Alex. I think the problem is fuel starvation. This can be due to lots of reasons which I’m sure you know. I have had quite a few cases where after a manual choke kit has been fitted, the O rings on the choke valve have been damaged and a portion of rubber ring has ended up in the main jet tube causing fuel starvation under load. I think it would be worth removing the choke assembly to check and see if the O rings are intact, just take care when you refit the choke so you don’t damage them if they are Ok. If they are damaged the carb will need stripping.

You could also remove the fuel inlet pipe and examine the end carefully to make sure no rubber is missing from the inside diameter as sometimes small parts of rubber can be sliced off if the fuel pipe is forced onto the carb inlet, and these end up behind the needle valve seat restricting fuel inlet to the float chamber. Another carb stripping job.

Did you check that the float chamber vent solenoid was closed with the ignition on as previously suggested?

If none of the above look to be a problem, Then I would try and test both fuel pressure and boost pressure under load to accurately diagnose the problem.

Cheers Gary :)

[E_T_V]

If you do need new O-rings the club can supply them at a reasonable price.

[TurboMG]

As I already posted there isnt a fuel filter, and if you take your car to a Rover dealer they wont have a clue.

[Fast Guy]

It might even be a wiring problem if the engines moving on it's mounts a fair bit. Check the crank shaft sensor plug attatched to the bellhousing as the wires going into the back of mine were shot and I'd get an intermitten dieing problem.

Check your spark plugs gaps are ok too.

Failing that check the hoses to the regulator and wastegate, or the regulator or the carb itself.


(ps the filter was on my efi, sorry for the confusion)

[MGTurbo469]

Hello again!

Thanks everyone for your input it is much appreciated. Been having a mare getting the alarm fitted to the car in question, plus the battery died on me on Friday morning -oh how wonderful, just at the most inconvinient time as usual (suppose I don't have to worry about that for a while now though). Hopefully now I can get a spare second or two to have a look at this bloody engine. The things we do for love eh :) Finally got some pics of the car as well for insurance / pleasure purposes.... huzzah.

Thanks again to everyone for their ideas, will post any findings here.


Cheers,
Alex

[MGTurbo469]

Hello again all --- sorry for delay it's been manic recently!

Still have the trusty (tanklike) Carlton ferrying me round so the Turbo hasn't seen much use besides the odd tinker on the weekend.

Thanks very much for your replies and info., checked the bits that were mentioned and could find literally nothing wrong!

Have just had the car on a rolling road, as of the 6 garages I asked originally, not one had any idea of what the car was (TWO insisted it was a diesel!!) -- anyway the fella from the Rolling Road has just called me saying:-

1) It's running 12psi
2) The problem with stalling is the wastegate and/or actuator dumping the boost.

Other than that he is happy with the condition of the engine, and happy with the mixture --- 157.5 bhp is the figure that came back.

I do have faith in this guy as he's been recommended a load of times to me for anything to do with carbs/turbo's/set-up etc.

I do however have some questions:-

A few people on here have VAAAAAST knowledge of these things, and could my problem with engine backing off/stalling be due to actuator/wastegate??
If so, where can I get said parts?? --- this is the most burning question as this makes the car undriveable, and this is meant to get me to work and back come January!

Also, if it's running 12psi, shouldn't the BHP figure be slightly higher? (though as far as I'm aware the exhaust is standard; looks slightly larger than my old one though)

Would appreciate any info anyone could put my way.

Thanks again everyone.
Alex

[MGTurbo469]

ps....

Further to my last message --- a popping noise can be heard just before the boost gets dumped and engine semi-stalls.

--- just in case that turns out to be pivotal information and I kick myself for not mentionning it!

Thanks again everyone!
Alex

[SubCat001]

Sounds like the blow off valve on the plenum is opening up under the increased pressure and as a result needs to be blocked off or a stiffer spring fitted.

HTH

[MGJohn]

Have read all this thread ..... good luck with this Maestro Turbo - they are worth the bother they sometimes create. Keep at it - you'll get there and then recapture the spirit of the one those scum nicked and destroyed.

Another possibility to consider from what you've written:

That blow off valve on the plenum could be opening up prematurely. Weak spring or? ..difficult to diagnose remotely. Try blocking it off or increase the spring pressure - use of additional washers can work well to increase the spring loadings - when you have it apart it's fairly obvious how it operates and how it can be sorted. For more information, check the MG BBS for precise details. There's a mine of advice and guidance there covering just about every aspect of the MG versions of these vastly under-rated cars (under-rated only by the misinformed - who happen to be in the majority unfortunately).

Finally, do recheck that short U-shaped balance pipe which runs from the front of the turbo's SU carb around to the drivers side of the carb. It may look OK but, if there's the smallest split (almost invisible sometimes) in it this will cause additional running problems. It may look OK on static inspection but fails to do the job when the car is up and running. Good quality fuel hose of similar dimensions also work well if the geniuine OE replacement is not available - I've seen these new-old-stock OE hoses on ebay but the fuel hose substitute works well enough but you may need small clamps (jubilee worm drive clip types) unless the hose is a tight close fit on its own account.

Good luck - let us know how you get one...

[TurboMG]

The little valve in the plenum is supposed to open at 12psi, sort of a safety measure, stretch the spring or block it off completely.

Im guessing thats a flywheel figure?? Its not to bad for a standard engine, how many miles has it done???

[MG1600S]

As I already posted there isnt a fuel filter, and if you take your car to a Rover dealer they wont have a clue.

Hmmmmm. I work at an MG Rover dealer as a grease monkey, I own an MG Maestro Turbo, not got a clue how they work though - must watch that training video on the shelf at home one day.... he he!

Yep, that small pipe on the top of the carb definately one to look for, sounds like it could be that.

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but it sounds like the clutch release bearing is noisey - I'm afraid its a gearbox out job to replace that. Just keep your ears open on that one, if its starts getting louder, its letting you know it wants replacing.....

[MGTurbo469]

Thanks all for your replies - much appreciated for all the info. :)

Gareth - I the fella dropped me a text with that figure, I'm assuming it's at the flywheel also. Engine has 88k on it. Trying to sort transport out to go and collect it so I'll ask some questions then, and have a look at the dyno graph. Will let you know when collected.

Subcat/John/MG1600S/Gareth also (sorry subcat/mg1600s, don't know your names!) - sounds like this little valve could be a culprit. My technical knowledge/ability is somewhat dismal so I have absolutely no idea how to go about investigating/rectifying this, and for fear of blowing something up :horror: I'll be hesitant to begin. -How do I go about this??

Was fearing the clutch verdict but there we go, if it's gone it's gone -thanks for the confirmation though, time to bite the bullet.

On another matter, the heater blower has now completely died. As is the trend with me, something fixed, two things break - wonder what the other is going to be :banghead:

Thanks again everyone.
Alex

[MGTurbo469]

:banghead: the 2nd thing has broken --- it was the waterpump on my ever-trusty Carlton at 3 o'clock today. Not even a slight failure, thats a monster mess. I will admit, at 195k it's not wholly unexpected, but I thought the exhaust would have gone first! :laugh: paid 200 quid for that and it's covered 35k with me, bless it.

At least I know thats the extent of my bad luck!

Maestro Turbo being picked up tonight, and 1st busy Cardiff commute for it 8am tomorrow -- we'll see how it does! :worried:

Thanks again everyone.
Cheers :)
Alex

[matthewsemple]

Maestro Turbo being picked up tonight, and 1st busy Cardiff commute for it 8am tomorrow -- we'll see how it does! :worried:

Good luck with the car and welcome to the forum. I live in Bristol and have no.500 and there's quite a group of us here so it would be good to see your car in the summer.

Also if you e-mail G52NAV who owns no.502 he should be able to tell you the number of your old car.

Any chance of you posting a picture of no.469

[MGTurbo469]

Thanks Matthew,

Do you know of a black MGMT in Bristol with Compomotive Race-look anthracite wheels? - Saw this car bringing my Original turbo back from Essex, we stopped at Fishponds to pick a mate up and it was sitting there just gleaming. (maybe it wasn't from the area though?)

Have no idea how to post any pics on here, because it keeps telling me maximum size is 550x0? -Can get the file under 100K but its terrible quality- but the actual size of the pic it spits back. Terrible pic anyway but I'll put it up if it'll let me! -I'll take some in the light at lunch time too.

-- The car did OK this morning in the rush-hour on the way to work.
Car feels a LOT better since the rolling-road tune, I suspect the mixture was way off originally.

Anyway -- Still got this backing off thing and its nowhere near as fast as it should/could be. Interestingly enough, on the rolling road it rocked up to, but backed off at 5050rpm or something; but as it's driving on the road it can happen as low as 2500rpm, though more commonly towards 3500rpm.... :worried: The guy reckons it is definitely just letting the boost go, and thus semi-stalling engine, so the blow off valve in the plenum as previously suggested could be the culprit.

-Can anyone explain for a dummy how to do this or is it a long drive to *instert-place-name-here* for a mechanic to do it?

Thanks again everyone.
Alex

[Beaker]

Have no idea how to post any pics on here, because it keeps telling me maximum size is 550x0? -Can get the file under 100K but its terrible quality- but the actual size of the pic it spits back. Terrible pic anyway but I'll put it up if it'll let me! -I'll take some in the light at lunch time too.
]

550x0 is the pixel size not the actual size of the file. I can hopefully give you some instructions to resize it, if you let me know which software you use.

[MGTurbo469]

Allo!

Unfortunately in work here all we have is the bog-standard Microsoft Photo-Editor, it's fairly useless to be honest!

Would appreciate any help.
Cheers
Alex

[E_T_V]

Ok here is a guide for that program:

Open the picture you wish to post
Click on the image menu and select resize
On the units box at the bottom select pixels
On the width select a number 550 or less then click ok then save it as a filename and in a jpg format.
Then they should be fine for posting on the forum.

[Beaker]

Have a look at this link, hopefully it will be some help

http://www.maestro.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1794&highlight=attachments

[Beaker]

Doh! Both posted at the same time,least no-one can say we aren't helpful and friendly on this forum :cool:

[MGTurbo469]

:) And the Lord said, let there be small, manky, dark pictures...
Apologies in advance but they were bad before! :laugh:

Thanks both.

Hope to get some in the light in about an hour which hope will come out better than these!

[E_T_V]

Looking good! If only mine looked that good :D

Still there is time yet.

[MGTurbo469]

Thanks, it's coming along slowly, if only it went as well as it looked (close-up it doesn't look that magic either which will be rectified in coming months :) ).

:censored: digital camera was "full" apparently, and here it would be more than my life is worth to delete whats on there. Looks like the scabby pics above will be about all for today.

I assume the Haynes book of Lies & Alchemy for MG Monty Turbo would cover most of the same engine/carb points??? Still looking at how to tackle this valve in the plenum chamber -- complete beginner but willing and hoping to learn!

Thanks everyone!

[Beaker]

Yes the 2.0 Montego Haynes Manual will be the book for engine. If you look on Ebay, sometimes the Rover Guides come up, which have everything in them for the Maestro Turbo, these are normally about the same price as the haynes manuals would be from Halfrauds.

[Ricky]

At risk of hijacking the thread, but just out of interest, and because I desperately need to get out more, I noticed that your reg is a Portsmouth one. You wouldn't per chance know the name of the supplying dealer would you? I assume it was a local one, and was just wondering if it was the same as my LX.....?

Ricky.

[matthewsemple]

Thanks Matthew,

Do you know of a black MGMT in Bristol with Compomotive Race-look anthracite wheels? - Saw this car bringing my Original turbo back from Essex, we stopped at Fishponds to pick a mate up and it was sitting there just gleaming. (maybe it wasn't from the area though?)

Thanks again everyone.
Alex

I have never seen the car you saw in Fishponds. The ones I know of are two red, one green and one white plus my red one. It would be great if you could come to the Bristol Classic Car show in June and join up with us. We had a Turbo of each colour this year but the black one was visiting from Northamptonshire:
http://www.maestro.org.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1109&stc=1

[MGTurbo469]

Matthew - I surely will pop over when she's running properly, its really not that far :)

Car progress --- replaced the balance-pipe at the front of the carb and that seems to be a lot better now.

Hopefully I will get the Haynes B/O Lies/Alchemy for MG Monty Turbo tomorrow so should be able to have a look at this little valve fellow in the plenum chamber.

Also read on a site that this could be the very small, right-angled joints into the ECU leaking very slightly, this not being seen by the ECU and misfire being produced at maximum torque. - I'll investigate this too.

Seems to be running very sweetly on the new diet of Optimax-only.

Anyway - hope to have a "problems solved" message to put here shortly.

Thanks again.
Alex