1986 Maestro 1.3 not running - HELP !!!

[nico]

Hello there !

This is my first thread on this site and it seems the best source of information for Austin's, which is quite interesting since no one knows (including me) anything about these cars over here in Belgium.

The car broke down the other day just after having filled up with cheap petrol so I thought it was due to a bad quality petrol and I started checcking everything : sparks on all spark plugs, petrol is arriving just after the fuel pump but as soon as I press the accelerator pedal, the engine just dies. I thought it could only be a carburettor problem so I bought a used one and guess what : the problem is still the same. There also is a mess with vacuum hoses which are all worn out but I don't know if this can be the source of the problem (btw does anybody have a diagramm for those ? I tried searching on the forum but couldn't find anything). I also just read on the forum that the carb needed oil in its little bottle (no no I didn't know it needed oil :giveup: ) so I'll have to check if it changes anything too. The engine doesn't have such a high mileage (70,000 km - +/- 45k miles) so I would be a bit disappointed if something with the internals were broken. Any idea, comment would be highly appreciated, or yeah and if anyone had such a diagram for vacuum hoses please let me know as nobody has them over here including rover dealers !!!

Here are the details of the car :
1986 Austin Maestro 1.3 "electronic control"

Thanks a million for your help !

Nicolas

[threelitre]

Hello!

Welcome to the Forums!
Actually I can't give you full details on the vacuum hoses from the top of my head, but basically it goes like that: There is 1 tube coming from the top of the inlet manifold, just in front of the carburettor. This runs to the brake servo, but has a few joints on its way. On these joints various small pipes branch off, leading to 1. the Distributor, 2. the air-filter casing and (depending on the model) 3. to the bulkhead near the heater-pipes. Make sure that all these are intact. But from my personal experience I would guess that the engine is not stopping, if the vacuum pipes are defective. There could well be another problem with the car.
Where do you live in Belgium, btw? Is it far from Aachen in Germany?

Regards,

Alexander

[nico]

Thank you for the reply ! I am actually in Brussels. I haven't been able to recheck the car today but what do you think of this oil thing ?
thank you for any help or comment !

Nicolas

[SimonR]

Hi Nico,

With regard to the oil in the Dash Pot (although I actually prefer now to call it the Carb's 'little bottle'!) I don't think it could be causing your car to cut out BUT it is important to top it up with oil. You can use just about any oil but some are bette rthan others - most people seem to use Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF).

When your car cuts out is it immediate or does it cough, run rough and then splutter to a hault?

If it cuts out immediately, as if you'd switched it off, then I would suspect electrics and advise checking the wiring to the Distributor and coil. I had a 1.3L with a similar cutting out problem (selecting 2nd gear would disconnect the wiring plug to the distributor and cause it to come to an immediate stop).

Let us know how you get on.

SR.

[nico]

Thank you F153JUE !
Nice to see there are still several Maestro owners who seem to know about their mechanic ! ;-)

thank you for the advice about oil.

In fact the engine stops a few seconds after having started and it also stops as soon as you press the gas pedal. The exhaust fumes also seem a bit strange : rather white and smokey although I don't have the impression it burns water.

I have checked sparks when cranking and that is ok on for spark plugs (spark plugs are only 2 months old btw). Petrol comes out fuel pump by cranking too.

I am starting to suspect a more internal problem like valves for instance. Perhaps the fact of having run on unleaded fuel (with an additive though) might have damaged something ???...) I just don't know... What about the reliability of these engines (and cylinder head) in general ? Are there many problems ? This car only has 45k miles so I would think that quite disappointing :rage:

Thank you for any other advice !

[E_T_V]

If the car starts then stops after only a few seconds or when the throttle is depressed it sounds like a fuel or igniton timing problem. (the ignition timing is largely controlled by the vacuum system.

I'd certainly get the vacuum system fixed as this causes many many problems on these cars. If a vacuum pipe splits it causes the engine to run lean (giving difficult starting and they often die when the throttle is pressed, which seems to co-incide with your problems).

After the vacuum system has been checked for leaks/splits/missing hoses then start thinking about how the problem started.

Did it start all of a sudden or has the problem gradually got worse. If it happened instantly then it might be something like water in the fuel, or a hose split etc. If it has gradually got worse perhaps it is a blocked filter etc.

I'd also try removing the choke stepper motor and see if the O rings are perished or split, as these control the air/fuel mixture of the car and the O rings degrade in the newer grades of petrol.

The fact that the car starts and runs al be it briefy indicates that there isn't likely to be an electrical problem such as HT leads etc.

From memory my vacuum system on my 1992 1.3 manual choke goes as follows

Right angled connector on the front of the carburettor - hidden under the air filter a pipe then runs to a T piece one end of which is connected to a small push on connector on the top of the inlet manifold the other end goes to a long pipe which runs over the top of the engine and down to the distributer where it is pushed on using another right angle connector.

There are some more vacuum pipes which control the air selector flap for hot or cold intake air but so long as these are not split or leaking they are relatively unimportant. The important one is the one from the carb to the inlet manifild to the distributer. Make sure this is free from splits etc otherwise the car will never run smoothly.

[E_T_V]

I am starting to suspect a more internal problem like valves for instance. Perhaps the fact of having run on unleaded fuel (with an additive though) might have damaged something ???...) I just don't know... What about the reliability of these engines (and cylinder head) in general ? Are there many problems ? This car only has 45k miles so I would think that quite disappointing :rage:

Thank you for any other advice !

I'm not sure if the continental versions of the car were unleaded fuel compatible from the start but I'm sure someone else will be able to help with that.

I would not expect there to be anything internally wrong with the car at 45k as they are very reliable engines. I re-built mine at 100k miles and apart from the valve stem seals leaking it really didn't need anything doing to it. Recently a forum member had a van with 300k miles on it before the engine needed work.

[nico]

Thank you ETV ! Well I just brought the car to some kind of garage "specialized in engines" this afternoon and the guy said "that the engine is dead" without being very specific... I'll try to see him tomorrow morning and ask if he at least checked the compressions.
In fact the car has got some bad white exhaust (which also makes me think this is bad...), the problem happened all of a sudden and I don't don't if there could be anything with the choke since : 1) it is the "electronic control" version 2) I just put a used carburettor and the problem is still the same. BTW where is this choke ? on the carb itself ? (correct me if I am wrong with anything...)

[E_T_V]

Ask for the compression readings on all four cylinders. If they are all the same and within specification then the internals of the engine are almost certainly ok. If two are low (usually the centre two) then the head gasket may have gone but these are easily replaced. (I took about half a day to change mine when it went). The gasket set cost me under £10.

The electronic control is basically a computer that controls the choke setting on the carburettor via a stepper motor. Many people swapped back to a manual choke as they were seen to go wrong quite often. This is infact probably not true it was just people didn't know how to operate the car properly. (Don't press the throttle whilst starting the car).

If you find out what is wrong with the engine I'm sure we can advise you on what to do to fix/replace it. I'd be very suprised if an engine that has been looked after properly would fail so quickly.

[nico]

Ask for the compression readings on all four cylinders. If they are all the same and within specification then the internals of the engine are almost certainly ok. If two are low (usually the centre two) then the head gasket may have gone but these are easily replaced. (I took about half a day to change mine when it went). The gasket set cost me under £10.

The electronic control is basically a computer that controls the choke setting on the carburettor via a stepper motor. Many people swapped back to a manual choke as they were seen to go wrong quite often. This is infact probably not true it was just people didn't know how to operate the car properly. (Don't press the throttle whilst starting the car).

If you find out what is wrong with the engine I'm sure we can advise you on what to do to fix/replace it. I'd be very suprised if an engine that has been looked after properly would fail so quickly.

Thank you again for the help ETV your help is very useful !
What you are saying makes sense. I would also be very surprised that compressions would be bad "all of a sudden" on all cylinders as when the engine runs (not for a long time but it does run) it is very clear that the engine runs on its four cylinders. There is also no dead rod bearing noise, no it is only a white smoke and the engine that dies...

I'll keep you informed !

THANK YOU again !!!!

[nico]

Well I went to see the guy who is supposed to be "specialised in engines". He said the engine is "dead". He asked for 60 € only for checking around ! I asked him if he checked compressions and he said it was not really necessary and he would have had to ask for an extra 30 euros for that (!!!??? :rage: :rage: :rage: ) (This is only an Austin !!!) so he didn't.
He said he thought the block was probably cracked somewhere (that seems very odd to me since I didn't have any temperature problems at all (and have never had in the past) and I know cracked engine blocks are not that common on any brands of cars (unless perhaps Austin... ?).
I am thinking I'll just remove the head and see how things look like in there. What do you guys think ? Any suggestions ? Do you think the works are worth ? Thank you again for everything ! You are definitly the best source of information I have found 'till now.

[Beaker]

I wouldn't take the mechanics opinion for granted. It sounds like he is taking your money and quite possibly not telling the truth.

Compression Testers are not to expensive to buy, and doing the test is very easy. It is very unlikely that the engine is dead in my opinion.

[E_T_V]

I'd agree that the mechanic probably isn't very good with this type of engine. I don't know if mini's (the old ones) are popular in belguim but they have the same engine and so any mini specialist will be able to supply any parts necessary aswell as advice and labour. The head on the engine is very easy to remove, but before you do I'd have the compression checked, it really is a five minute job. I cracked a block in our car but it is quite unusual to do so.
If the headgasket has gone this is easily fixed and the parts shpould be readily available and cheap. The most difficult bit about removing the head is getting the exhaust and inlet manifold bolts off. If you can get these off then the rest of the job is really easy.

[nico]

Thank you for your help everyone (again) !
Yes it seems no one in this country knows about these cars (while there are more complicated cars on the market today...)
I just ordered a kit today for checking compressions which I should receive in a few days (I think things will be easier - and cheaper- if I do everything by myself). I'll take my time to do this since I have another car in the meantime...
I'll keep you updated !

Thank you again !!!!

[dutch-van-driver]

Hi nico,

I think that Belgium and Holland don't differ that much in relation to these cars. My experience is that parts are available but unfortunatly not that cheap. You have to live in the UK for that. I needed a part for the front-wheel suspension and it costed me 35 EURO (about 22 POUND). I found the same thing on E-bay for 2 POUND. Unfortunatly (again) this was only shipped within the UK.

I know of some members who are willing to send you parts by mail. Because of a chronicle money shortage at this moment I decided to let the cosmetical stuff be. Maybe after we got the Baby (my girlfriend is pregnant) this could change.

Marc

[nico]

Yes I know I have an old Land Rover (seriesIII) and I am having exactly the same problem. Thank you btw !

[E_T_V]

I am sure with both the landrover and the mini there will be parts specialists aswell as the main dealers because of their popularity (we used to have a series III straight six safari when I was a lad but it had been converted with a 3.3 perkins diesel. Try asking around I'm sure there will be a specialist near you that can help. Also remember our club spares are open to club members and so long as our costs were covered I think we could post worldwide.

[nico]

Thank you again for your comments and support.
The car is now fixed !!! In fact the reason why the exhaust fumes were blue was because there was water... in the fuel !!! I had just filled in cheap petrol and I discovered it by testing that way : First of I checked compressions which were all fine (cyl 2 & 3 just one bar less but that is acceptable), I connected the fuel line just before the fuel pump in a jerry can full of "clean" petrol (emptied the carb first) and the car began (very very slowly though) to run much better and to have less white fumes. I emptied then the whole tank with an electric pump via the fuel pump to make sure it gets really empty and even though it needed at least 10 or 15 minutes to make it run correctly (the petrol was such a s...).
Thank you again to have advised me to check compressions first as if you hadn't told me I would have already removed the head,...
BTW if anybody here needs a spare carb I am ready to send it by post for free (just the shipping costs)...

Nicolas

[G Force]

Hi Nico.

I think that it is worth back tracking a little with your no start problem. You say that the car originally broke down after filling up with cheap petrol and you first suspected this to be the cause. Are you totally satisfied that the fuel in the tank is ok?? If the fuel is contaminated or mixed with cheaper fuels such as parrafin, gas oil, D.E.R.V, etc. or is simply aged petrol that has gone off, any of these could give the exact simptoms you are having. Difficult or non starting, poor running, cutting out, cutting out when throttle pressed and white smoke.

I would have a go at running the engine with some correct grade petrol straight from the pump before a major engine overhaul. ;)

Cheers Gary :)

[G Force]

Hi Nico glad you fixed it sorry I was too late with my post. :)

Cheers Gary :)

[nico]

Thank you Gary !
By the way what do you think of this garage so called "engine specialists" who asked me 60 euros (40pounds) to tell me my engine was dead. Would you accept that ? how would you deal with that ? I am thinking of going there with the Austin inside the garage and ask them about where I should park it for the engine to be changed ;-) Perhaps I am too bad I don't know, any suggestions are welcome ;)

[ChrisM]

personally i'd go back and demand my money back and cause a big fuss. but thats just me.

glad its fixed!

[G Force]

Hi Nico :laugh: Its sad but not suprising that Belgium like the UK has its share of so called specialists who are just cowboys out to rip off any one they can! :rage: It would be tempting to try and do as you say :) but they would probably have the cheek to still try fit a new engine for you. :banghead:

I would just thank yourself you had a close shave, but a lucky escape. Just stay well clear of them in future, but tell as many people you know just how special they are.

Cheers Gary :)

[threelitre]

Hi Nico!

Fine that it's running again. After reading on since my last replay I thought about water in the fuel - but you did find out yourself now. I once had similar problems with very old fuel, but as you said yours was new... I personally had never problems with the cheap fuel over here and my 1.3 has already done 26,000km on unleaded without problems - although it is of the old leaded 'only' variant... So if you use (good quality) super unleaded and an additive you should be fine.
If you need any spares, I have quite a few and Aachen isn't that far from Brussels.

Regards,

Alexander

[dutch-van-driver]

Recently there was something in Holland in which there was a feul station where water had entered a feul tank. It resulted in a lot of cars stranded (and a big trafic jam).

Maybe the result of the heavy rain?

Marc