m o t 's

[tony]

after welding my car for three weeks and weeks of odd jobs i took my car for a mot today ,it has been without for 3 years ,it failed on only three things,a side light bulb had blown,checked it the day before!,nearside rear brake was sticking on ,and a ball joint badly worn iwas please with that.cannot tell u how sweaty my palms was ,i hate going to get my car mot:(

[malcsmaesty]

Ah,the dreaded mot! M681 almost seems to shake on the dreaded day,especially when the tester takes a sharp intake of breath and says this is going to cost you!!!
Mine falls in december,could be an expensive christmas.....:(

[tony]

yes only said i want to mot a montego and you get replys like escape from the srapeyard did it.for a engine that had not been used for years the emissions was quite good co=1.04 and the hc=266,pity about it sounding like a bag of marbles it sounds readdy for a new cam!!

[E_T_V]

Well I am pleased to say ours failed yesterday. Pleased because it only failed on emissions (which is a bit odd as it is a new engine) but so easy to fix and corroded brake lines which shouldn't take much time effort and money to put right. No other mention of corrosion. I was sooooo impressed.

[John]

Got mine next month so fingers crossed. Also got the wifes next month need to get one through for our hols last week in July. Happy days, not.

[matthewsemple]

MOTs must be the single main reason that our cars get scrapped when thecost becomes more than another Maestro with an MOT or another much newer car. Luckily my MG1600 has passed both MOTs first time since I have had it - much to the surprise of the testers who were expecting to find a long list of faults. The first time I had it done the guy came back to me scratching his head in a puzzled way as he told me it had passed!

My Turbo always fails though! And it is due in November so too close to Christmas.

Well done to Tony on getting his MG Montego Cabrio nearly MOTed. Those three problems will be sorted out in no time and you'll be able to enjoy these gorgeous summer days that we are currently experiencing.

Are you taking it to MGM 2003 on 6th July? We'd all love to see it.

[tony]

if all goes ok with the mot taking it on wenesday:p i will keep u posted,then yes i am comming:laugh:

[D87 SMW]

Does anyone take out the air filter while their car is in for its' MOT?

[tony]

mine is a oil/foam thing,and no i did not take mine out:p

[tony]

when taking mine for the mot i did about 10 miles in all,i averaged 14 mpg i think it got down to single figures at one point mind you i had my foot flat on the floor at the time,and boy has it got some power,i am now the oldest boy racer in the village:laugh:

[E_T_V]

I've taken it out when it missed the emissions by a fraction as a quick fix as I didn't have a suitable screwdriver to hand. Not recommended for any extended period of time obviously!

[matthewsemple]

Originally posted by tony
if all goes ok with the mot taking it on wenesday:p i will keep u posted,then yes i am comming:laugh:
Fingers crossed then Tony. If you get it along then you'll get mobbed with people wanting to see your car. Let's hope it doesn't rain!

Taking out the air filter, I guess that makes the mixture very weak and helps pass the emissions.

[John]

I always put a new filter in for the MOT and that seems to work, although I do have a sympathetic tester who doesn't mind doing the odd tweek to bring it into spec.

[tony]

if took the air filter out of a efi car would the electronic just compemsate for it?

[matthewsemple]

Originally posted by tony
if took the air filter out of a efi car would the electronic just compensate for it?
You are probably right. The Lucas air-flow meter on your car would probably make adjustments but if it was all working properly the car wouldn't fail the emissions test would it?

My 2.0i never failed on emissions whereas the 1.3 and 2.0 Maestros I have had with SU carbs have failed. Interestingly the MG 1600 with its two twin-choke Webers has passed two MOTs without a fault since I have owned it even though those carbs are notorious for being out of tune.

[D87 SMW]

Took F170 GGT into the workshop at college to check it over for an MOT. Beforehand it would have failed on emissions, but after a bit of tweaking and cleaning and gapping the plugs, it will now hopefully pass.
Will need a new set of wiper blades (mine have had it) and that's more or less it - body and underside are solid.
Not bad for £50! In fact, that's brilliant! :):):)

[tony]

hi ggt do u know what your emissions readings was ,i want to compare them with mine ta tony

[D87 SMW]

I think the emissions were HC=700 and the CO=3.0 before.
Afterwards they were HC=300 and CO=2.0

- can't remember exatcly though.

[D87 SMW]

I think the emissions were HC=700 and the CO=3.0 before.
Afterwards they were HC=300 and CO=2.0

- can't remember exactly though.

[tony]

i think you car has to pass lower immissions with it being a bit newer.
raining very hard here ,has been for the last 3 hours,my car and my house have been leaking water in ,by morning i will have 2 indoor swimming pools sad face:( ,it now called dc has its retest tommrrow hope it passes:eek:

[E_T_V]

I seem to remember the emissions regulations change in 92. After that they are much more strict. The pre 92 levels are 1200ppm Hydrocarbon and 3.5% CO I seem to remember. The level for an a series should be around 2.5% CO. (Mine was over 6% so need a bit of tweaking!)

[tony]

i think after 92 cats came in and the emissions levels was very low .3 i think ,my limit was 4.5 because mine is pre aug.85,between 85 and 92 it was 3.5 ,mine is in for its retest on sat cross your fingers;)

[matthewsemple]

Originally posted by tony
i think after 92 cats came in and the emissions levels was very low .3 i think ,my limit was 4.5 because mine is pre aug.85,between 85 and 92 it was 3.5 ,mine is in for its retest on sat cross your fingers;)

Good luck, tony - we are all thinking of you today!

[tony]

well everybody i have good news and bad news about my car for the retest,the good news is that is has passed, re PASSED the test hurray cannot belive it my self:) the bad news part one is that the car has to be retested for the immissions because it has been more that 24 hours from the orginal test this time it fail on the co reading,he reved the engine at 4000revs for 2 mins to clear the co's then retest,but the eletric fan was not working and the car boiled over,weeing all into his pit:eek: he push it out side and let it cool we bridged the sensor for he eletric fan,but it still not working :mad: ,looked into the fusebox to find the fuse had blown,fitted a new fuse(15 amp)and the eletric fan burst into live we refilled the water system and did the immissions again,this time it passed them:D ,the tester thinks that the engine was too warm for the immissions,so i got a pass ticket,:( bad news part two is trying to get the tax disk took all the documents only to find out that the tester had put 28 july 2003 to 27 july 2004 on the pass ticket,:banghead: ive got a 13 month ticket now:confused: got to go back to the test station to get a new ,new ticket but now the post office is shut because i spent a hour telling u all about my test day:laugh:

[Austin-Rover]

You're not having much good luck are you?

At least it passed anyway. You dont have to worry about that for another year!



:laugh:

[Beaker]

Congratulations on it passing, just have to get ours through its mot now

[tony]

now its passed i have a new"to do"list both front wheel bearing,two door cards front windows not working,no window switchs c/l not working,new front pads and disks,thats all i can think off now,.i asked the man who did the mot about the wheel bearings and he said if i got the bearings he would fit them for £20 a side which i think was good value :) the car goes in thursday for them doing:)

[John S]

I've just fixed my central locking (fitted from an '87 VDP). I recommend you to take off all the door cards and then to flood all visible mechanisms with waxoyl (spraycan). Failure of c/l is rarely to do with the motors being weak just stiff mechanisms.

[Sleepwalker]

Hi! I am Sleepwalker from Singapore and this is my first post! I am fascinated by the practicality and how economic the Maestro is! Unfortunately, the Maestro is not available in Singapore as it proves to be unsuitable for Singapore roads. I am interested in knowing more about Britain's MOT system. Let me introduce to you a similar, but much more unreasonable system in Singapore.

As a small country, Singapore does not produce its own cars. All its cars are imported. We adapt the COE taxing system. Together with the extra taxes it makes the cars in Singapore the most expensive in the world. You may not be able to imagine, so let me cite an example: a Mercedes E240 cost around £70000! That's double of that in UK I believe. A small sedan like the Honda Civic will cost no less than £25000. Rolls-Royce Phantom? £500000. That's daylight robbery you may argue!

That's not all. The COE system works like this: In order to buy a car, one must buy a Certificate of Entitlement to go with the registration of the car. This piece of paper? Around £10000. The price of the COE depends on the engine capacity of the car, category (diffrent engine capacities, buses, commercial vehicles, motorcycles...), ans simply luck. You have to bid for that wretched paper to get hold of it. (OMG you have to bid high to get what you swear at every fortnight?!) Plus the import taxes and road taxes and you get the "heavily-fined" car in your garage.

But it will not stay there forever. The following is the biggest catch of the system: one COE lasts 10 years, and after that the car will be automatically deregistered and not allowed to be on the roads! :eek: The car has to be either scrapped or exported. (What a waste I heard you say?)

Don't want to scrap your beloved car? The solution: Buy another Certificate of Entitlement at another £10000 pounds. This will keep your car on the road for another 10 years before the cycle repeats. Singaporeans must be filthy rich?! No way, but we somehow manage. This almost makes the MOT system sound heavenly!

That is one reason why small cars like the Maestros don't get imported. People simply don't want to spend a bomb to get a car which costs a few times less than all the taxes added together. The system has been changed recently, and cars below 1600cc all belong to the same category, making hatches popular overnight.

As for quality of the car, yes we also have to go through a test too. Cars above 3 years of age go for checks yearly, and are not allowed on the roads if they are found in bad condition (criteria similar to MOT I think). Since the COE makes old cars rare most of the time cars can pass the test without much trouble.

So, the MOT system suddenly sound so magnanimous? Not surprising. And anyway can anyone explain to me how the MOT system works? I will appreciate that. Thanks.

[tony]

yes i will have a lot of work to do on the front doors,i think replacement doors are a good start,.
do the maestro front doors fit the montego?

[tony]

wellcome sleepwalker what kind of wage do u get over there to pay for all that?our average wage over here is £300-£500 pounds a week,our mot is once a year after the car is 3 years old,basicly every think is checked to make sure the is another years life in it,that it will keep you safe in a accident,and everythink works as it should all the controls,lights brakes,tyres,there is books 3 inch thick covering this subject ,as you say like your test over there:p

[Sleepwalker]

Average wage? Around S$3000 or £1000 per month. Everyone pays by instalment except the filthy rich ones. Until now I wonder how we manage. I paid for my Nissan Sentra 1992 over 6 years for around £200 per month. In caes you wonder, I bought that car in 96 for around £15000.

Thanks for your explanation. You made motoring in Singapore sound like hell and that of UK like heaven. ;) :banghead:

[tony]

wow we have somthink else over here that i think you dont have ,,,,a lot of rain and cold weather:laugh:

[e692wtt]

Further to what Tony says above about checking that 'things have another year of life in them', if the Tester thinks that something (or things) 'may well deteriorate in the next year so as to make the car unroadworthy or dangerous' (my 'quotation marks', not an official phrase) he can issue an 'advisory note' to let you know about the problem(s).

Otherwise the MoT is a check that certain items are 'roadworthy at the time of testing', and many things are missed off (eg front driveshaft outer cv joint rubber 'boots' are tested but the inner joint 'boots' aren't mentioned in the MoT regulations, but a split inner 'boot' will be mentioned as an 'advisory' [as above] by the Tester).

It's a fairly comprehensive test for just under £40, and as such is good value for an examination by an experienced professional - although different Testers will always have slightly different standards and experience, and there will always be the occasional 'tester' who will provide a 'bent' MoT at a price...

I go to a good back-street garage, the chap there takes my Monty for its MoT and does any repairs needed (none this year except exhaust emissions). The garage he uses is 'firm but fair' and if parts fail the MoT the failure is legitimate at this MoT garage. I've used this chap for 12 years now.

The other other Rich.:laugh:

[tony]

yes same here if you find a good machanic you go back time and time again ,i suppose its he same for plumbing,eletrical work and the rest,the trick is finding someone in the 1st place:p

[Jonathan]

I didn't know Ken Livingstone was also president of Singapore?

You put forward the perfect case for emigration!

[e692wtt]

He's not... yet?! He's just practising for the role, main experiment being the Congestion Charge.

Talking of which, a lady from north Manchester keeps getting Penalty Notices (and fines) for failing to pay the £5 fee by the end of the days when her car's registration number has been recorded in the Congestion Zone. It would appear her car's reg no has been attached to another vehicle, possibly to avoid the London car's owner paying a fiver every time he enters the Zone (he says, tongue in cheek...). The Authorities are not impressed with this, the Police won't take action (no physical evidence regarding the London car and that it has this lady's reg no affixed) and Red Ken's minions are not happy to accept proof from the Manchester lady's workplace that she was, in fact, at work and nowhere near London.

George Orwell was only 19 years premature in his vision of a future society, then...

Seriously, in the light of these revelations from Singapore, we don't have it TOO bad, do we? I've read in Car Mechanics mag that parts prices are similarly inflated.

The other other Rich.:censored:

[Sleepwalker]

Ahh... lot of rain you say? We have it too. Singapore experiences summer all year long.

And for the Congestion Zone, we adapted it long ago. At first one has to buy a license for S$3 or £1 to enter. The license is displayed on the windscreen, and upon entering the Congestion zone it will be supervised by a particular 'someone' who never fails to catch a car entering without license.

In recent years, Singapore developed the ERP system. There are big gantries erected in streets leading to the Congestion zone. Every single vehicle in Singapore has a IN-CAR unit installed. One has to insert a cash card into the unit, and upon passing through the gantry S$1 will be deducted from the cash card. It works like the infra-red screening. No car is able to escape.

One of the all-time tax & temper rasing systems. So what if you enter the zone twice in a day? You get the fee deducted twice. Pity the taxi which is made to enter the zone 10 times in a day! The cabbie has to pay the fee himself!

[Sleepwalker]

Originally posted by D428CHO
I didn't know Ken Livingstone was also president of Singapore?

You put forward the perfect case for emigration!

No, there's no Ken Livingstone for any President of Singapore. The President is just a figurehead. No power. Only status. Presently it's an Indian man, SR Nathan.

And sad to say, I was born in Hong Kong, and I migrated to Singapore only a few years ago.

Hong Kong is nowhere better. A better parking lot will cost you around £300 per month. If you opt to buy a parking lot it will cost £40000 to £50000, depending on location and managements. Parking lots in HK are viewed as properties. An investment, just like a house! ;)

[tony]

those of use with 5,6,7,8 cars may have a problem then with parking ,we will have to start stacking them:laugh:

[Sleepwalker]

Just a question: Do you have to scrap a car just because it failed the MoT? Or is it because repairing it will cost more than a newer car?

[tony]

u dont have to,but you cannot use the car on the road without a mot .but there is hundreds of cars with a years mot on them for next to nothing out there if your not fussy.most of use just buy another maestro/montego and take all the good bits off the old car and then scrap it.

[matthewsemple]

Well done tony - looks like you'll have it taxed and tested for next week and ready for MG Saloon Day on Sunday!

[tony]

:) thanks:)

[D87 SMW]

Are there any strict regulations on whether your wipers self-park?

[tony]

for the mot no,they just have to work ,turn on and off

[D87 SMW]

Good that's all they do!:laugh:

[tony]

mine do'nt self park either:laugh:

[e692wtt]

Re cars being scrapped because they failed the MoT, a lot of people think "oh no, a couple of hundred quid for the MoT, stuff it I'll get a newer/better car".

My thinking is that if my Monty costs £200 a year for the MoT (and it's always been less, sometimes just the MoT plus a few quid), then the car is on the road for 12 months - whereas if I got a 'newer/better' car I would be paying out £200 a month for, oh, quite a few years, compared with the £200 once a year.

The local scrapyards are full of cars that haven't seen their 10th birthday, including Maestros and Montegos but mostly Countryman estates at the moment - Montego saloons all seem to have been crushed recently but there are a few Maestros around.

I firmly believe "it's better the devil you know" and so will stick with my Monty 'til Hell freezes over... and then some more!

People don't see the loan payments and depreciation and defend their purchase of a 'newer/better' or new car to the death... more fool them. Who's got spare cash at the end of the month 11 months of the year (if not the full 12)???

This doesn't apply to Maestro or Montego members, or other committed 'old car/cheap motoring fans', as these cars, even the last ones, depreciate very little as they are so cheap - cars like my Monty (16 in October) are essentially worthless anyway.

The other other Rich.:)

[tony]

plus you know what work has been done and if it broke down a fair idea what's wrong,people buy new cars mainly for reliablity but a lot of new cars have niggley problems from new ,that need a computer not a spanner @£30 ph to mend them .
my mother has a car thats comming up to 3 years old marked the bumper that's going to cost £125 to mend ,just for a mark.
we can run a car for a year on that money
:)

[e692wtt]

Re my last post above, 'members' should read 'drivers', as in 'Maestro and Montego drivers...' fifth line from the bottom. I'm losing it, I tell you!

Tony, you are bang on! I've heard too many people say "well, my car's coming up to 2 (or 3) years old, it'll start costing money and wearing out and getting unreliable, I must get a new one!". Sad but true... people see the annual £200 cash for MoT repairs being handed over to the garage (and don't like it), but the monthly £200 loan payment for their 'better/newer' car is 'invisible' - they don't see a wad of paper with the Queen's head on passing from their hands every four-and-a-bit weeks.

Even if Monty were to be written off after an accident, I would get another petrol car (carb or fuel injection) without a catalytic converter, or a diesel - 100% certain it wouild be a Maestro or Montego! I don't subscribe to the 'electronic overkill' on modern cars... what use is your local £25-an-hour spannerman then?

I'm sure you can tell this is one of my hobby-horses... I'll put it out to grass for now...

The other other Rich.:cool:

[matthewsemple]

New cars are a waste of money, especially if you are paying it off on finance. Who in their right mind would want to pay £14,000 for something that costs £10,000 and then take four years paying for it by which time it is worth £4000?

My philsophy - buy a four year old car for £4000 - save yourself £10000.

The worst deals are those ones where you pay £200 - £300 a month for two years and then have to pay off the balance which is about what the car is worth by that stage.

I'd always urge people to look beyond the monthly payments and see how much the car will cost in total and compare that to the list price. Always enough information to make me walk away.

[e692wtt]

The idea with this is that your car is worth the outstanding amount after the two years, so you give the car back and start over...

And these 'used car finance/credit' places ain't any better. Would YOU pay £108 a month for 5 years for a car valued at £4000 and after the 5 years is worth nowt? That's a total repaid of, wait for it... (drum roll...) £6480... These places have APRs into the 20 to 30% region! Ouch! But '£25 a week' (as per the TV ads) isn't much, is it?

Makes me think of a family eating arsenic- or cyanide-laced sweets and cakes as they sink into a big patch of quicksand that will swallow them whole, just to keep themselves happy...

Poor b*ggers! Cynical, moi?

The other other Rich.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[F690OTF(RIP)]

I couldn't agree more; I'm all for computers and electronics in abundance, but only in their place. I don't the mechanics of my car to be electronically controlled, because then I can't fix it myself. My guess is that most cars produced these days need the dealer's computer to adjust almost anything to do with the engine, and a fair bit more. As a consequence, I don't think you'll see many of the cars which are new today on the road in 15-20 years' time, because no-one will want to still be paying their dealer through their nose to attach their computer to it, but the car will just die if they don't. The result is that the idea of being able to run 15-20 year old cars will soon die, as people will either own cars less than 10 years old or more than 20 (and getting higher as we get temporally further from the last cars which could actually be maintained by the user).

It infuriates me when people talk about new cars as being so much better. Modern cars may be theoretically safer, but I think we've become safety obsessed; we make cars safer in the event of an accident, when the more obvious option is to make accidents less likely to occur in the first place. This could be achieved by stopping the ridiculous trend for constantly thickening the pillars on cars and making the screens ever smaller, reducing visibility. Modern cars don't encourage responsible driving; they encourage you to let the car look after you whilst you do what you want. They don't encourage economical driving either; they're so over-soundproofed that most drivers clearly have no idea what their engine's doing. People tend to take the engine to 3000rpm before engaging the clutch when moving off, and then hold gears far too long simply because they can't hear the engine (or just aren't listening carefully enough). I know they're trying to major on passenger comfort, and I acknowledge that there are people for whom this is a key consideration because they spend most of their working week in their cars, but there has to be a balance.

I could go on forever, so I'd better stop now. People certainly give me funny looks when I say I'd rather have a car 10 years old or more even if I could afford a newer one. Still, there wouldn't be any old cars if there weren't people to buy them new in the first place. A selfish way of looking at it, I suppose, but it's essentially the way we get our cars.

[matthewsemple]

In this month's MG World, the editor confesses to never buying a new car:

"I couldn't stand the thought of all the depreciation"

He goes on to say that lots of MG saloons are now cropping up on Autotrader.

This two-year old top spec MG ZS180 4dr saloon in the popular Trophy Blue is up for just £8500.

New price - £16,740 + £325 for the metallic paint - that's £17,065!

[matthewsemple]

Picture didn't work first time :banghead:

[e692wtt]

I can get a 'low interest' car loan from work as one of the 'perks' even though I'm neither an 'essential' or 'casual' car user (I drive a desk and outdated computer [and alleged-systems] 8 hours a day).

'Course, this is really 'zero-interest' - I've got zero interest in using the facility! And I too get some rather, errm, funny looks when I declare my intention of staying with my 15 2/3 year old Monty. I'm assured by one colleague that she pays reduced Road Tax (sic) on her Ford Kack because it is environmentally friendly...

F690OTF(RIP), you too are bang on!

Did you know the latest model Vauxhall Astra's Clock (on the fascia...) is only set-up to run until 2030? Is that designed-in cynical obsolescence or what? The clocks in our cars will run for ever... 2000 compliant, what's that?

My mum's fella purchased a 3 1/2 year old ex-motability Astra 1.6 Club estate (30,000 miles) last summer for £6K... it failed its MoT (at 4 years old) on leaky rear brake cylinders, which my mum said "isn't too bad for a 4 year old car". WHAT? I'd expect a rebate on my MoT fee if I'd forked out £6K for a car! Cost more to get through the MoT than my Monty - £15 for the exhaust emissions, then my spannerman gave me a gallon can of Waxoyl (cost approx £20?)!

Fools and their money... and better the devil you know...

The other other Rich.:laugh:

[matthewsemple]

There's also a MG ZT190 with options that would take it to £21,940 (more than the price of ZT 190+)

2001 51-plate, and the price?

£9995

[matthewsemple]

I'm assured by one colleague that she pays reduced Road Tax (sic) on her Ford Kack because it is environmentally friendly...


So your colleague saves £1 a week by having a smaller engine - but has to drive one of the worst cars on our roads today! What sort of depreciation does her car suffer? More than a £1 a week!

Incidentally all Maestro and Montego 1.3s and all Metros including MG Metro Turbos and Rover Metro 1.4GTis qualify for cheap road tax. Unless a car was manufactured after 2001, it has nothing to do with catalysts or being environmantally friendly - just 1549cc or less!

Manufacturing new cars uses so much energy that it has far less impact on the environment to use an old car for twenty years rather than replace it after ten as only one car needs to be produced in the same time you would otherwise have two.

Average cars last 10 years and 100,000 miles so almost all our cars are very much on borrowed time and many will be on borrowed mileage but despite what some people could have you believe we are actually saving the environment by using older cars for longer.

Put that to your colleague with the Kack!

[e692wtt]

I've tried, but she won't have it. She's not, errm, "playing with a full pack...". A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, shall we say?

The 1549cc cut-off for cheaper Road Tax is a con - a smaller-engined catalytic converter-equipped car being driven at high speed up a hill on the motorway will need full throttle, whereas a larger-engined catalytic converter-equipped car will cruise at high speed up the same motorway hill. The smaller-engined car's engine management system will dictate a 'full throttle rich' fuel/air mixture, whereas the larger-engined car will be happy on a 'stoichiometric' fuel/air mixture. The former is the more-polluting - readings of 4% CO or even as high as 10%CO are not unusual, with the increased unburnt Hydrocarbons resulting from a 'rich mixture' that this entails going to create Photochemical Smog (as per Los Angeles' yellow skies) in warm or hot, sunny weather. Our cars won't produce anywhere near as much pollution... this is another of my hobby-horses, but my colleague won't buy it...

If a car lasts 'for ever' it will consume less energy (as fuel and energy-derived repairs eg welding) than it ever consumed making the thing in the first place. The greenest car is one with a bent MoT but well-tuned engine, where the repairs every year require minimal energy input... and it will be the cheapest it could possibly be to run as well, as a bonus!

Again, cynical, moi?

The other other Rich, Environmental Science 'Technical Fix or Radical Change' Graduate. :laugh:

PS shame about the depreciation on these MGs - as you say, let somebody else pick up the tab and then leap in! Still a bit beyond my means though, but I could fancy a ZT190 - there again, I could also fancy a Passat TDI 130... better the devil you know.

Rich!!! Stop it!!! Talking to meself, now...

[Mat_C]

Slightly off topic - I've heard a rumor that the EU, for once, are doing a good thing - they're making law so that all car computer systems have the same physical plug and protocols - to remove the "can only diagnose at main dealer" monopoly.

Helps the local spanner man!

[e692wtt]

Like VW in the USA, where security codes are available to the public (from the VW Dealers - the code comes with the car) but in Europe one has to take one's VW to one's Dealer(and shell out) each time it c*cks up?

Recent comments in a couple of sources (Car Mechanics and Honest John c/o The Daily Telegraph) indicate that owners of certain makes of car (VW and Renault, if memory serves) should INSIST on getting the Security Codes for their cars, AS THE CODE BELONGS TO THE CAR, NOT THE DEALER.

The Dealers in the USA have a lot more clout and I believe VW(USA) Dealers refused to let VW get away with inflicting the latest Security Code Upgrades on them that the European VW Dealers just let VW impose as 'the next security step'

This is probably more off topic Mat_C's previous reply, but the standardisation of sockets and protocols can only be a good thing. Not that this affects any of our cars. Again, 'electronic overkill'... a mate has a VW Lupo that tried to top itself when only a couple of months old and the transponder in the Ignition Key sulked. Resulting in changing several-hundred-quids-worth of components, luckily under warranty. Progress???

The other other Rich.:censored: :censored: :censored: