What's gone wrong this time? please help!

[Jez]

Trying to get my MG 2.0i to run I thought I would change the rotor arm and cap. I remembered to undo the nut holding the arm on then, it would not come off. Eventually I manged to pull something out of the top of the engine. This does not look good to me! Have I broken the camshaft, or some kind of end bearing seal? Please look at the photo and tell me how much trouble I am in! thanks Jez

[Russ]

You have pulled the bush out of the cam. As the cam has to have this fitted when new there must be a way of refitting it ( I think!) the critical part is making sure it goes back in exactly the same place as it came out or your timing will never be right. The first thing to do is get the rotor arm off the peg and see if you can find some location marks on that and the cam end

[Russ]

Just checked the factory manual and it says 'the D shaped distributor drive is pressed onto the camshaft' unfortunatly it doesnt say how or where to line it up :mad:

[Jez]

Hi Russ, lining this thing up and gluing it back in is something I only think Country Dude could manage!

looks like a new camshaft and top end rebuild, for the sake of a rotor arm change!! Still at least Rimmers have one, if i need it.

It is possible this was part of the trouble in the first place. The rubber looks quite smooth and glossy in places, perhaps it was moving anyway?

Still if it wasn't for this cars bad luck, I have no car at all!

[Russ]

I shouldnt move ,the rubber is there as a vibration damper. does it slide back in easy? If you can get it lined up correctly and stuck back in is a lot less work than changing the cam as you will have to get a special tool to clamp the cam down while you set the valve clearences with various shims. To be honest if it wont go back your easiest and possibly cheaper option is to replace the head with a good secondhand one. May sound drastic but the head is pretty easy to change.

[daveyboy]

I had this happen years ago on our first 2.0i i cleaned up the cam and welded a large washer onto the peg, prior to welding the washer in place i drilled a few holes round the washer, once it was welded to the peg i timed the car up and got the rotar arm in the correct place and liquid metaled the peg and washer in place. it worked a treat and the car run as sweet as a nut for 6 or so years :)

[countrydude]

Hi Russ, lining this thing up and gluing it back in is something I only think Country Dude could manage!

Eh? am I missing something here?:worried:

[Jez]

no offence meant Country Dude, just an respect for you overall mechanical skills!

[mgdavid]

just glue it back in, in the same place it was when it was pulled out, or as close as you can get it. The crank sensor and ECU will do the rest and sort out the spark timing for you...

[Russ]

just glue it back in, in the same place it was when it was pulled out, or as close as you can get it. The crank sensor and ECU will do the rest and sort out the spark timing for you...

I dont think it will,will it? Surely the ECU etc needs the 'timing' of the dizzy cap to be more or less set in stone for it to work things out correctly. It will make minor adjustments but the rotor arm needs to be back in virtualy the same place it came from

[e692wtt]

Ask someone on here with a 2.0 injected engine to help:

1. ask them to set their camshaft pulley so the marks on the pulley and on the head line up.

2. ask them to take off their car's distributor cap and take various pictures of what position their rotor arm is in ('straight on' to the cam might be best). Ask them also in what direction they think their rotor arm is pointing (eg 7 o'clock) for an idea of the direction if the photo isn't clear at first glance.

3. get hold of the pics.

4. set your car's camshaft pulley as in 1. above.

5. refit your car's rotor arm and bush as near as you can to the position in the photos and secure with appropriate adhesive.

I don't do bodges often, but they are good ones when I do! :)

[fatboy.01]

jez i got an o series sitting at work if you fancy a trip to hastings

[Jez]

I am not one for short cuts these days, but the latest comments are making me think it might be worth a go! As others have said, if it can be worked out where it should be in relation to the cam, a bit of glue might do the trick. Hard old rubber to mental, glue, any ideas??

[daveyboy]

Just get the rotar arm close as you can to where it should be thats all i did and mine ran superbly for ages, i was told at the time the ecu and crank sensor would sort it as long as it was close to where it should, worked for me you cant really lose anything by trying can you
Epoxy resin would glue it i would have thought

[Russ]

If a lot of force was used when the thing came out. It maybe just a case of tapping it back in with a socket. The factory manual says its pressed into the cam so one would assume that it was never boned to the cam in the first place

[Jez]

I tired putting it back in today and there seems to be a possible positive fit thanks to some old rubber left behind. I think it will be worth ago gluing. But what glue? it must be thin and withstand high temperatures?

[mgdavid]

Before we discuss glue, did you get the rotor arm off the shaft, clean and grease it, and replace it yet? If not then somebody you? - is going to have the same problem when it needs replacing...
I'd use Araldite...

[oseerees]

Before we discuss glue, did you get the rotor arm off the shaft, clean and grease it, and replace it yet? If not then somebody you? - is going to have the same problem when it needs replacing...
I'd use Araldite...

Good point!
Leave overnight with a few drops of Plus-gas on the shaft and screw hole threads, then hopefully you can remove rotor arm (and of course then replace old rotor arm with a new one).

Use a decent glue as said like Araldite or any epoxy resin glue. Not too much. Of course, being a 'rubber' bush, superglue will work just as well, if not better. :D

[countrydude]

no offence meant Country Dude, just an respect for you overall mechanical skills!

Ha ha! Blimey there is a first! A lot of the conversion work has been me working with someone else know on Triple M oddly enough called Jez! Just keep buggering on and you will reach my dizzy heights! It is all I have done, that and know a few people I can ask opinions and ask for wiring and welding skills.

Mainly it is forums like this that give the information and then the confidence to give it a go. As this thread of yours is illustrating. But thanks for the compliment.

[Jez]

I had to hack saw off the old rotor, it was really stuck. (it had a metal shaft, inside the plastic outer bit). I then mixed some 24 hours epoxy and stuck it back in. Slight problem in that with the glue on, it did not locate as well as before, so not 100% sure it is in the right place. Superglue might have been the better option. Sometime tomorrow, I will put on the new rotor and cap and will see what happens! thanks again for the help.

[Jez]

Car didn't start, so i don't know if the camshaft is any good or not. Being trailered to my mechanic next Wednesday.

[e692wtt]

Check for a spark at the end of the 'king lead' from coil to dizzy cap, at the dizzy cap connector. If there is a spark, this will eliminate the coil and low tension side of things and that's a start.

You could also check for continuity across the rotor arm, make sure the new one isn't faulty (it can happen). Also make sure the dizzy cap is OK, that the carbon brush is present and intact with continuity across it.

Try to eliminate as much as you can, hopefully the problem is something minor...


Did you ever ask anyone to take photos of the way the rotor arm should be 'set' as I suggested on Sunday?

[Russ]

Maybe it would have been better to put it in without glue and used trial and error to find a place where it woud start before gluing it in. Best of luck with it Jez you havnt had a lot of luck with it since you bought it really

[Jez]

My garage has finally got round to looking at my MG and found: the HT lead to plug 2 and the crankshaft senor were faulty. He also wants to change the temp sensor just in case. Both sensors have been ordered from Rimmers, not cheap of course, but I would rather fit new if available.

The really good news is, he has got it running and thinks the rotor arm spigot has been glued back in the right place.

[G51 NAV]

That is good news. Hopefully things are looking up.

[daveyboy]

good news you certainly havent had much luck with the car so lets hope it starts to go well from now on :)