Wheel wobble - The saga of

[E_T_V]

I'm sure all of us have at some time suffered from wheel wobble on our cars. Well recently I have had a bad case of it. I checked the wheelnuts were tight, I couldn't see any bulges or flatspots in the tyres although the tyres were ancient (Original Goodyear GT80's as fitted as standard!). I'd swapped them onto the front of the car to wear them out as they were starting to look their age, and although they squealed like a pig when I threw it round corners everytrhing seemed ok.

One day the wobble started all of a sudden and it seemed to get worse. By now the tyres were low on tread so today I got them changed. I asked the guy changing them to see if he could see anything that would cause the wobble which he coudn't until.........

...he took the tyre off of the rim and there was a good half pint or so of water in the tyre. Now as tyres are balanced down to 5gram weights being added to the rim, I can quite easily see how 250g of water sloshing around the tyre would contribute to a significant wobble.

Now my question is how on earth did it get there? (I have my suspicions but I'd like the forumers views too).

[D87 SMW]

and although they squealed like a pig when I threw it round corners everytrhing seemed ok.

It did what?! I presume it is the 1.3 you are talking about... if one of those squeals on cornering, there's definitely a problem!

I think it could be poor beading, and/or condensation...

:idea:

[Austin-Rover]

I've been in a fair few cars with tyres that squeal under normal driving conditions, most notebly, Rich Smith's Montego on last years Northern Road Run. Alas, i can only get mine to make noise on the carpark at ASDA!

Im stumped as to how you collect half a pint of water in your tyre though! I would have said you may not have had good seal around the wheel, but then your tyre would have gone flat, not filled with water.

[Mat_C]

My 1.3 squeals on full lock in car parks and when cornering enthusiastically.

I recon it could be condensation from a petrol station compressor (if used often) being blown in.

[D87 SMW]

Well my two are 1.3, as were the other two I had, and my dad has also had two of 'em. Not once out of any of them have they ever squealed, and they took a lot of thrashing too!

I still say that water could have got there due to condensation through a poor beading.

By the way, the wheels are balanced, not the tyres.

[E_T_V]

It did what?! I presume it is the 1.3 you are talking about... if one of those squeals on cornering, there's definitely a problem!

I think it could be poor beading, and/or condensation...

:idea:

Err there are no mechanical problems. Tyres DO squeal and you'd know that if you'd ever driven. Some types squeal more than others though.

Poor beading would imply that the seal wasn't good when the tyre was put on. If it didn't seal properly then all the air would rapidly leak out. Even if it was only a small leak air would be forced out rather than water in due to the 30 PSI difference in pressure.


I still say that water could have got there due to condensation through a poor beading.

By the way, the wheels are balanced, not the tyres.

Actually tyres ARE balanced at the factory, some even come with their lightest spot marked to make sure the lightest part is fitted opposite the valve which has weight. Imperfections in the tyres and rim combined is balanced by the addition of metal weights to the rim/tyre combination either by clamp or adhesive.

I see someone mentioned my pet theory above which I think is the correct one. I think I must have filled the tyre with water from a contaminated airline. That would explain it occuring suddenly and how on earth it got there.

Glad it isn't me who thinks it was a dodgy airline.. the moral of the story is to always release air from the airline before you use it on the tyres!

[D87 SMW]

Now as tyres are balanced down to 5gram weights being added to the rim

Well two years of doing this at college, and many years of repair interest, and this is the first I have ever heard of 5g weights being added to the rims of tyres! I think you mean wheels...

Err there are no mechanical problems. Tyres DO squeal and you'd know that if you'd ever driven.


My father has driven six 1.3 Maestros, two being mine, and at no point have any of them squealed, despite one in particular being thrashed for the whole nine years of ownership.

I know I am not old enough to drive legally but your comment comes across as if I'd never driven? I'd like to know where that information has come from, as it is false.
Being under the legal age does not mean that I have never driven a car before...

:rolleyes: :giveup:

[E_T_V]

Well two years of doing this at college, and many years of repair interest, and this is the first I have ever heard of 5g weights being added to the rims of tyres! I think you mean wheels...

I didn't say rim of tyre (as that is technically called the bead of the tyre) I said rim, which is what the tyre is mounted onto, you know the metal bit with holes in! :D


My father has driven six 1.3 Maestros, two being mine, and at no point have any of them squealed, despite one in particular being thrashed for the whole nine years of ownership.


I'm not saying any of your cars did squeal, but mine do. As I said it is a lot down to tyre choice. My goodyear GT 80?'s squeal as to the continental ones I've replaced them with., although you have to go much faster and pull more G to make them squeal.


I know I am not old enough to drive legally but your comment comes across as if I'd never driven? I'd like to know where that information has come from, as it is false.
Being under the legal age does not mean that I have never driven a car before...

:rolleyes: :giveup:

I can appreciate not being old enough to drive does not mean that you have never driven. I first drove by myself when I was 8, and have been regularly driving since I was 13. (The beauty of growing up on a farm! :D) My information may have been incorrect but I believed that you had never driven your maestro on a dry well surfaced road surface at a reasonable speed under conditions where the boundaries of tyre road adhesion had been reached. If this information is incorrect then please accept my appologies.

[D87 SMW]

I'm not saying any of your cars did squeal, but mine do. As I said it is a lot down to tyre choice. My goodyear GT 80?'s squeal as to the continental ones I've replaced them with., although you have to go much faster and pull more G to make them squeal.

Ya, some technical advice for you... get some decent tyres, then you won't have ones that squeal. :rolleyes:

I can appreciate not being old enough to drive does not mean that you have never driven. I first drove by myself when I was 8, and have been regularly driving since I was 13. (The beauty of growing up on a farm! :D) My information may have been incorrect but I believed that you had never driven your maestro on a dry well surfaced road surface at a reasonable speed under conditions where the boundaries of tyre road adhesion had been reached. If this information is incorrect then please accept my appologies.

Neither your post, nor mine referred to the extent of my driving. All this mumbo-jumbo about road surfaces doesn't really have much to do with whether I've driven or not... ;)

[E_T_V]

I need some decent tyres eh?
What would you recommend then?

Your opinion of "decent" must be very different to Austin Rover then. Goodyear GT80's (previously fitted to my car) were standard factory fitment on the Maestro for several years. Continental tyres are also regarded as a leading manufacturer.

As for road surfaces they do make a tremendous difference to whether tyre squeal occurs or not.

[D87 SMW]

As for road surfaces they do make a tremendous difference to whether tyre squeal occurs or not.

Agreed. But it has no affect as to whether I have driven or not.

:rolleyes:

[Blair G]

[QUOTE=F170 GGT]Ya, some technical advice for you... get some decent tyres, then you won't have ones that squeal. :rolleyes:


I've got medium compound racing slicks (cost £110 each from Redpath tyres) and funnily enough even when heated to race conditions they still squeal when pushed hard. At the end of the day any tyre on any car will squeal if driven hard enough.....the only time this MIGHT not be true is a stone cold tyre on a cold/damp/wet surface, turning in to get bag loads of understeer, tyres sliding rather then trying to find grip (which causes the squeal). Although wet tyres on a wet road do still squeal.
Perhaps I should go and get myself some "decent" tyres to stop this.

[Ricky]

You want tyre squeal? Take one Peugeot 309, add a set of 155 x 13 Road Champ tyres (the best "plastic" tyres money can buy!), and a roundabout at about 40mph..... :horror: How it keeps grip i'll never know, but its good fun! That's why I havent added any alloys yet, theres just too many fast corners round here! My old 1.3L used to squeal a bit, nowhere near as much as the 309, and I can't say the MG has been driven far enough since I have had it to find out if it squeals or not!!

Ricky.

[SimonR]

...he took the tyre off of the rim and there was a good half pint or so of water in the tyre.

Now my question is how on earth did it get there? (I have my suspicions but I'd like the forumers views too).

The airline theory is a good one, however, was the wheel in question ever a spare? I'm wondering if it was stored deflated in a boot where water was getting in. If so then it could have filled with water while there was no pressure and then been inflated, thus sealing the water inside.

On the subject of tyre squeal, my old 1.3L used to do it when turning sharp bends quickly, it was worse before MaestroMatt had the rear suspension repaired, after I gave it to him. Squealing is down to a lot of factors such as driving style, tyre compound, tyre age, suspension condition, road surface and weather conditions.

If I try hard I can make F153 do it, that's on 15" cross-spoke alloys but with mid-price 195mm japanese tyres and brand new suspension.

[Dave]

Id guess these were second hand tyres - filled with water whilst sat in the scrap yard off the original rims, its quite hard to get all the water out so who ever fitted them (to sell the car quick, or pass an mot maybe?) didnt bother to dry them.

Dave.

[E_T_V]

The airline theory is a good one, however, was the wheel in question ever a spare? I'm wondering if it was stored deflated in a boot where water was getting in. If so then it could have filled with water while there was no pressure and then been inflated, thus sealing the water inside.



Oooh another good theory!
The tyre was indeed a spare at some point (thats how it has managed to last 15 years!) but I don't think it had gone flat or been in a leaky boot. Also the rim wasn't rusty (infact quite the opposite!) which I would have expected if the water had been in there a while. As the problem came on "all of a sudden" my favourite is still the airline theory but I have to admit your idea does sound very plausible. :cool:

[E_T_V]

Id guess these were second hand tyres - filled with water whilst sat in the scrap yard off the original rims, its quite hard to get all the water out so who ever fitted them (to sell the car quick, or pass an mot maybe?) didnt bother to dry them.

Dave.

Everyone is coming up with good explanations this morning!

Another good idea but I have had these tyres from new (albeit on another car) so they've got a fairly known history.

As a brief bit of history to the car
The tyres were obtained when my family scrapped two 1.6's. My 1.3 had 155 tyres on it whilst the 1.6's had 165's. I picked all the best tyres from the 1.6's (including the two brand new GT80 spares), and fitted a whole new set of wheels to my 1.3 to increase the tyre size a little and because the tyres on it were looking a bit thin. That is why if you remove the hub caps on my car you'll see different style rims on the front and back and my car seems to have a non standard tyre for its engine size.

[Rich]

My 1.3 squeels, especially in carpark, when your slowly going round the bends at the end of the spaces. Thats not at any real speed, and with Michalin Classics on (now named "energy" for some reason).

I have always fitted Michalin, ever since we had a Citroen ZX TD Estate, for 4 years and some stupid mileage including a trip to Germany and back, those tyres still had good tread on the day we sold car.

I had new tyres put on H902 back in 1999 (front) and 2000 (rear), and only a few months ago did I have new front tyres fitted as the inside edge was as bald as a coot! Although no expert on tyres, I believe these are pretty good!

When I had the last pair fitted the bloke in the shop expected me to have the budget ones, he found it hard to belive I was putting such a tyre on a Maestro.

No road champ for me thank you very much, the tyre is the only part of the vehicle that is in contact with the road, its worth spending some money on that and being a bit safer!

Think yourself lucky that we still have a choice in tyres, take the Morris Minor for example, the only tyres you can get for that now are Welsh Re-moulds!

Rich

[Simon]

Air acts like a sponge and soaks up water. On compressing the air, water is released, usually to the bottom of the pressure vessel (receiver) on the compressor. This must be drained regularly according to insurance schedules, the recommendation is daily, to avoid corrosion from rendering the pressure vessel unsafe. Ka-boom! Maybe water vapour had got into the air into the tyre after all, via the airline.

[Dave]

I just fitted a rather tasty pair of Toyo Proxes to my 827 - wow! They are very quiet, they grip the road unbelievable - no more wheel spin in 1st, 2nd and 3rd (as it did with my Michelins I had fitted)

Dave

[tony]

i wonder if you have water in the rest of the tyers?and how would you check ?
take the tyer off the car ,put the valve to the bottom and let a bit of air out ?

[Mat_C]

Shaking the wheel? not sure because it's never happened to me before, suppose it depends on whethers there's enough water to make a noise.