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G51 NAV
26th February 2010, 17:51
This is a long-standing niggle with MGT #502 which I don’t think is related to its lack of use, but I’m prepared to be told it is. If so, I’ll just have to tolerate it.

From stone cold it starts and runs fine at fast idle (1100-1200rpm ish), but as soon as the needle on the temp-gauge begins to move, it starts to run really lumpy at anything less than 3k because it seems to be too rich. With foot off the pedal it’s so lumpy that the tacho-needle is virtually back to horizontal and the engine nearly stalls, but it never quite does.

Then, as if by magic, when the temp gauge passes ¼, it somehow snaps out of it and runs as smoothly and evenly as you could ever expect, idling at about 850-900rpm and revving cleanly all the way up.

No problems with hot or warm restarts, unless it's sunk back into that 'not quite cold, not quite warm' zone.

I’ve tried a different fuel ECU, a different ignition ECU and I’ve checked for blocked vent pipes.

I once thought I’d solved it because I found a crack in one of the elbow-connectors on the vacuum-pipe from the carb to the ignition ECU.

Could it be something to do with the way the one way valve is connected (pictured below)?

On other MG Turbos I’ve seen, this little device is connected up in every conceivable way, but surely only one way will be right? On the car in question, pipe A goes back to the inlet-manifold (with a metal restrictor in the other end of the pipe), pipe B goes back to the block and pipe C connects to the underside of the air-box.

If it was faulty, or connected up incorrectly, would it give rise to these symptoms?

TIA, from your friendly technical numbskull :D

(Ask me about polishes, sealants and waxes: I can bore any insomniac comatose by talking about those, but what goes on under that bonnet remains witchcraft to me, beyond the very basics of 'suck squeeze bang blow')

EDIT: I bet it's the O-rings!

henocsr
26th February 2010, 22:01
i have been having problems with my turbo, my one was cutting out and misfiring but sometimes would be ok when warm sometimes wouldnt start, sometimes would cut out after beening reved. i found lots of things wrong and have corect all of them and the car great again

Broken wire at the coolant temperture sensor causing the temp gauge not to work and the choke not to come on, open circuit the fast idle will work but choke will not.

amiant temp sensor going open circuit when below 3 degrees causing choke problems

carb vent valve staying open or opening and closing intermittantly (THIS CAUSES CUTTING OUT)

slight manifold gasket leak

spark plugs that were only 7 months old causing misfire

stepper motor open circuit on one of the windings

crank sensor cable was high resistance

If the breather valve was faulty (blocked) you would noraml get high crank case pressure causing smoke at idle from the exhaust.

A goes to the manifold
B goes to the breather pipes
c goes to the air box

When the engine is at idle the crank case gases and vacuumed up into the inlet manifold though pipes B and A. You will see a small rubber valve in pipe C which gets vacuumed shut (if this was open stuck the engine maybe getting to much air at idle)

When the engine is reved the suction is now moved (as air is pulled in to the airbox by the engine and turbo when on boost) to pipe c so crank case gases are now sucked though pipes B and C as the valve on pipe c is now sucked open (the gases must go though about 6 little metal filters inside the red black housing to get from B to C these noramlly get blocked)

To stop the turbo boost from blowing down pipe A from the inlet manifold there is a one way valve bolted on the inlet manifold this also has the resistriscer in it

G51 NAV
26th February 2010, 22:04
Crikey good on you for tracking all that lot down! Bet you're glad it's sorted.

henocsr
26th February 2010, 22:16
yes was a pain most of it caused by an old tried wiring loom. i have made a new loom for the ignition ecu side of the engine bay which has help things no end. Before if you moved the cables by the ecu the car would not start:mad:

G Force
1st March 2010, 11:40
Hi John

It is always going to be a tricky one to solve, when it runs so well when hot and clap cold.

It could be as you suggest, the stepper motor O rings. Or one of the things on hensocrs list.

The problem could be a temperature sensor not reading correctly, either the ambiant sensor in the loom or the air intake temp sensor in the intake pipe.

The throttle pedal switch may not be operating correctly, if it was not closing then the stepper motor would not be able to control the revs on return to idle. You can check this with a multi-meter at the fuel ECU between the pink / black & pink / slate wires. You should get 0 Ohms resistance when the throttle pedal is off and infinity with the throttle pedal pressed.

Another possibility could be the temperature control in the intercooler stuck in open mode. A flap in the intercooler controlled by a waxstat thermostat bypasses the intercooler core when air temperature is low, It only opens to let the air pass through the intercooler above a certain air temperature. If the intake air was too cold due to it passing through the core, when the engine was cold it could cause poor warm-up performance.

G51 NAV
1st March 2010, 14:22
Thanks for the valuable leads.
Something else I don't think will be helping...
re. the red and black valve (pictured above): you can suck or blow through any hole and the flaps don't close, presumably because they've swelled.
I wonder how easy the valve is to prise apart without completely knackering it? If I can get inside I might be able to repair it. How complicated can it be?
Alternativeely, I wonder how much they are to obtain new (if at all)?

Russ
1st March 2010, 16:10
Theres a simmilar one fitted to the metro,not sure if exactly the same

G Force
1st March 2010, 16:25
Theres a simmilar one fitted to the metro,not sure if exactly the same

I think either the metro, maestro, montego, or the rover 820,620,220, etc. turbo models all use a valve that should fit. I doubt if you could succesfully split the valve and reseal it without breaking it:(

Russ
1st March 2010, 17:00
The part is called a 'regulator valve' ive searched rimmers and ebay to no avail.
Incidently i typed the web address for rimmers as rimmers some people have a very different idea of what a rimmer is to us :eek:

henocsr
2nd March 2010, 10:59
I think either the metro, maestro, montego, or the rover 820,620,220, etc. turbo models all use a valve that should fit. I doubt if you could succesfully split the valve and reseal it without breaking it:(

it should just pull apart my one did. and i removed the metal filters and cleaned them