Let's Laugh At Fords...

[D87 SMW]

Here's a Ford Fiesta to laugh at to start with:

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[D87 SMW]

Yeah, right...
:laugh:

[Wonko_The_Sane]

My mother owns a MK4 1100 Popular Plus...heh. Before that she had a MK2 950 Popular. The MK2 was quite nice really...VERY basic..base model, not even a parcel shelf! Ran till it rotted, and ran on no oil a lot of the time due to even worse breathers than Maestro's choking it to death.

I drive autos..and that is one of the few manual boxes (4 speed) that I get on with. It was also MUCH lighter to steer than H870, with no PAS to help!

However...the 1100 is..frankly..a pile of poo. The "cat" went, the cold start injector is buggered, it fills with water due to VERY naff designed door seals. It creaks, it rattles, it shakes, and it's VERY sluggish. It's cramped, and it's rusting..badly (M Reg).

Sometimes to start it you have to pull the fuelpump fuse and crank it till it fires, then slap it back in. The AA acknowledge this issue..its apparently "caused by engine wear (less than 50K!), causing the engine management system to malfunction." This causes the cold start injector to latch "on" and flood the engine and cat with fuel.

Ford confirm this (at least our dealer didn't deny it) and when asked about fixing it, we were told " a new engine, mate..thats about it..".

A low mileage, well serviced M reg...sad eh? Mum loves Fiestas..but she said she'd reconsider next time. Me, I'm trying to get her to consider a Rover 200/25..;)

As it is, H870 gets used to complete journeys sometimes because it's failed to proceed.

My summary? Sack 'o' sh:censored:te...:laugh:

[JollyMG(1)]

I've had a couple of Escort RS Turbo's in the past and they're really fun to drive so I'm not gonna take the p**s out of them, not at least until I get me hands an a Maesty Turbo and make the comparison ;)

[John S]

PS: Well....Maestro Turbos aren't rare really it's just that they go that fast the human eye can't detect them!:laugh:

[Mat_C]

Escort RS Turbos & RS 2000 0-60 is aprox. 8.3s. I'lld compare them with the MG Maestro 2.0 LOL ;)

Maestro Turbo - no comparison!!!!!

[H48HPE]

i like the mk1 fiesta, that 'done up' one looks stupid though, i wouldnt be seen dead in it.

ive used a well worn diesel fiesta van (R reg) and it wasnt very good but it had been thrashed all of its short life on the motorway. i dont dislike old fords and I really like the Mk1 escort.

basicly im into older cars from the early 60s through to the 90s, im not that keen on newer cars they have no character and tend to be a bore (especially mondeos)

the car i like best is the maestro though. I was horified when my dad started on about getting a maestro when i was 12, but once we got it I liked it and my dad let me work on it doing stuff like body work (i think after the rust started he decided that i couldnt make it any worse)and doing minor repairs to it. I got all the practice i needed for when i got my own car.

andy

[matthewsemple]

The only time I would be caught at the wheel in a Ford is when I drive one of my Maestros down a road that is crossed by a stream.

Our cars are amongst the worst for rust but the crown has to go to Ford. I have lost count of the number of N-reg Fiestas I have seen with the front valance consumed in rust. Heaven only knows what they will look like when they are as old as the first Maestros.

And I totally agree about RS and XR3s etc. They have a big following but those cars are rubbish when it comes to acceleration when you copare them to the MG Maestro 2.0i and Turbo.

I will never understand why anyone parts with their hard earned cash in a Ford dealership. For the price of a new Mondeo you can buy a Rover 75. I have driven both and the Rover 75 feels like it should cost three times more than a Mondeo as the Rover feels more on a par with The Jaguar S-Type.

[Lewis 325]

Fords are everywhere so I guess everyone would have something to say

I guess I'm a little anti-Ford because when I had Triumphs most of my friends had Fords (they even had an "XL" club for their Cortinas, Escorts and Capris)

Fiestas - one friend had a Mk I Supersport 1300 which was kinda tasty, but having seen them fold up on the race track (no chassis rails, i.e. box sections, to speak of)I'm giving them a wide berth!

Escorts - I once had a Mk II (the only Ford I've had). It was truly awful.

Old Fords - like the Zephyr Mk 3, Capri Mk 1, Granada Ghia Coupe
These are cool :cool:

New Fords - These are Mazdas :laugh:

[D87 SMW]

Okay, I'll admit. - My dad used to be a Ford person. :rolleyes:
Here are the Ford's he had:

Ford Consul Stock Car
Ford Consul Stock Car
Ford Consul
Ford Consul
Ford Consul
Ford Consul
Ford Anglia
Ford Cortina MKI
Ford Cortina MKII
Ford Cortina MKII
Ford Cortina MKII
Ford Cortina MKIII
Ford Cortina MKIV

[tony]

i think that some things are best left unsaid,:banghead:

[D87 SMW]

Nice one dad! :laugh:

[Simon]

I had a Mondeo once. Just for a change. I had it for 3 years and it lost about £4k in depreciation. The drivers side electric window regulator broke. I fitted a new one. It cost £180! This experience (and much much more) put me off so called modern cars and that's why I changed from a 5 year old Ford to a 10 year old Maestro (with the same mileage of 75,000 I might add).


Here's a picture of a Ford to laugh at. Tasteful or what.

[tony]

magnectic bodywork?

[e692wtt]

Hmm, Nice... I've been contemplating painting Monty in a blue colour scheme, possibly like 'blue army fatigues'. But now I know what I'm gonna do... thanks for that!

The other other Rich.
:eek:

[Maria]

How about this?

http://240plan.ovh.net/~passionf/upload/civic1.jpg

http://240plan.ovh.net/~passionf/upload/civic10.jpg

[MaestroMatt]

Oh nice!

[Austin-Rover]

...Its a classic already!

Whatever posessed someone to create such an awful, awful......thing......what exactly is it?

:eek:

[Maria]

I think it used to be a Honda Civic. Now it's the USS Alpine and used for their intergalactic ICE demonstrations. Or something.

[Maria]

Oh no!!!!

http://www.essilor.freeserve.co.uk/sad.htm

[D87 SMW]

:laugh: Hopefully taking F170 GGT into the Workshop at college next week to show the collection of Fords up for what they really are. ;)
Oh yeah, and to use their equipment to check it over before the MOT in summer! :laugh: Oh, and to proove the Motorcycle teacher wrong in what he thinks of Maestros, and because the Cars teacher used to have a Montego and would like to have a nosey at it. Wait until I tell them I paid £50 for it and it was driven 40 miles from Sheffield to Salford through the Pennines and Snake Pass! :laugh: ;)

[Austin-Rover]

Do some people have no shame?
What did that Maestro do to deserve the addition of plumbing. Is an 'en suite' next on the project list?

[D87 SMW]

XR3i Website (http://www.xr3i.co.uk/)
You have to enter this site about 5 times for some stupid reason. :laugh:
Go to the gallery for the MKII Escort and compare these (sheds) cars with the Maestro.
Oh, what a horrid car. :laugh:

[D87 SMW]

:laugh: Looks like someone's tried to inject some character into their XR3i! :laugh:

[Jonathan]

I must admit to being curious as to why so many of us pick on Fords. I don't think too much of most of their recent offerings - they're ugly and boring too because they're just all over the place wherever you look. But it's always nice to see an old car being kept running and on the whole I've nothing against anything pre 1996ish (except nasty late shape Granadas and I don't do Fiestas). The first car I remember my dad driving was a beige Mk3 Escort L. I'd sooner have a car built in Essex on my drive than another 'made in Japan'.

Interesting looking through that gallery... why is it that Escorts always look so tacky modified?

You'll find me laughing at B*Ws which are genuinely evil in the world of motoring!

[Austin-Rover]

I just think fords are cheap, nasty and tacky. The Ford Fiesta must be one of the Tinniest cars ever, with even the L reg ones reduced to little more than piles of rust. Plus they are the choice car for anyone wanting a quick status symbol by attaching stupid bits of fibreglass and neon lights (completely pointless when you think that if it was meant to go fast, it wouldnt have a Ford badge on it and it wouldnt have a 1.0 litre lawnmower engine in it).

Somehow, they have just become to 'bland' and too 'everyday'. They dont really say much about their owners apart from. "I know nothing about cars". Its pretty much the same for Vauxhalls too.

Rant over.

[D87 SMW]

I must admit, my dads Astra is pretty bland- BIG mistake!

[Jonathan]

He'd do well to remove the stickers from the headlights before selling, twin headlamp conversions on the wrong cars can look dreadful when done properly let alone with sticky backed plastic ;)

What we really don't like then is ordinary non-performance cars being dressed up by their owners to look like something they're not. But that's just as common on Novas, Peugeots, even Rovers. I think the same as RDGelder every time I see a shopping trolley Focus, but should a standard 1982 Granada in well kept condition pass I'll probably take a second look. But if I see that apple green Mk4 Escort with the loud exhaust once more I'll be sick.

[John S]

Originally posted by F170 GGT
XR3i Website (http://www.xr3i.co.uk/)
You have to enter this site about 5 times for some stupid reason. :laugh:
Go to the gallery for the MKII Escort and compare these (sheds) cars with the Maestro.
Oh, what a horrid car. :laugh:

You mean visit a F*RD website? Are you sick??!!:eek: :laugh:

I must say that whoever posted that website on the saddest thing on four wheels is just plain ignorant. The car wouldn't look bad at all with a bit of tidying up. Maybe the person was jealous and has never seen a Maestro with spoilers before?;) Personally I doubt Top Gear will give the submission much notice, they'd more likely rip the :censored: out of a beige maestro, for instance.

[D87 SMW]

It's a neverending collection of photos to laugh at... :laugh:

[e692wtt]

Re THAT Accord, I was thinking of something more subtle at 99% cheaper than that. Such as THAT Crapi (oops, Capri).

My opinion is that Fords are produced to provide JUST ENOUGH feedback and enjoyment for the 'average' driver (demands very little) within the constraints of the smallest possible expenditure, and are cynically marketed to appeal to people who aspire to mediocricity but are highly concerned with their egos (must get a new car, m'dear) and also extremely, errm, shallow. What does it matter, anyway, when Ford are number one in the Sales charts because the vast majority of their sales are 'fleet sales' of Focuses (Focii?) to sales reps and Mondeos to sales managers?

I've driven Fords, and while they did their job extremely well, I couldn't say they were remotely 'engaging' to drive (with the exception of the Transit - I respect these), unlike my Monty and other Maestros and Montegos I have driven, where I feel very involved and 'engaged' in driving them. I have a rapport with Monty, for goodness' sake!

The other other Rich.
:confused:

[e692wtt]

Just a thought re M170RFA's signature (?) 'Above all its a Rover'... an ad campaign used by Rover for some time in the early 90s.

Spoken in a Japanese accent, it sounds like "Above, ah, it's all over!". Do you think Honda knew the writing was on the wall several years before the B*W (Break My Windows, Bad Man's Wheels) Takeover???

Just respectfully asking...

The other other Rich

[topgear]

Oh dear!

[Rich]

Transit, who the hell would have a Transit over an LDV?

LDV is still British I belive, according to there website, and there vans are very maestro/montegoish in inside, thngls like switches, instruments and heater controls are based on Maestro/Montego parts. The LDV Convoy is superior to the Transit in my opinion in many respects, and I have driven both, even the new transit which i havent driven, but i think looks awful when compared to an LDV equivilent.

If Rover disapeared and I couldnt run a Maestro, I would go out and buy an LDV and use it as a run around!

Rich

[H48HPE]

just a few things id like to say on the subject:

1. the ldv sherpa style van is by far superior to the transit in everything it does.

2. I agree with what johnathon said about older cars pre 1996 - i like to see the older stuff on the road anything like that is vastly more interesting than some new crap with no character (exept micras- see below!). I also tend to dispise BMW cars mainly because of the whole rover episode. I would give the worst car ever made prize to the nissan micra - in every form its been in, its been horible - crush them all!

3 FORDS - As i said above i tend to think they're crap when new but give em a few years and i start to think better of them (the only exception being the mondeo) the ford capri is a design clasic,

its nice to see other cars of the same period and price bracket as the maestro if only so i can think how much better my car has survived or whatever, good look to ford owners and to any other car owner running a 'banger' i hope they keep their cars for many years to come, soon they will become clasics as the maestro has now done it keeps the roads an interesting place to be

andy


4.

[TurboMG]

I think there a lot of people on here that need to face reality a bit more, an LDV superior to a transit, you must be joking. LDV/sherpa vans are crap, they rust like anything and if they do still use maestro switch gear that proves a point even more, what other manaufacturer would use switches form a car that was discontinued 10 years ago.

Also early xr3's and xr3i's are becoming more and more collectable and will eventually go the same way as a mk1 Rs2000's/mexico and go in to the motoring hall of fame as collectors cars.
I doubt the maestro EVER will, all IMHO of course.

[Rich]

Nah we got wires crossed here, i said BASED on, i.e the dials are SIMMILER in there appearance, NOT the same, colum stalks are totally different, the way the switch gear is styled is simmiler, although I think the phsical knobs on the heater is a Montego part, this is on the newer LDV's from around P reg. Despite that, what would be wrong if it was all the same stuff, the designs are well proven and functional, and better laid out than the controls on most vehicals.

Where I work we have fleets of Transits and LDV's most of the Transits are R reg, the LDVs range from L - P, and the Navy is running even newer ones. Considering the abuse they get, the LDVs are better, they have lasted better, run better and are just a better drive. Bodywork I cant comment on, all of them have bumps dents and grazes.

Its a personal opinion at the end of the day, but if i had the choice it would be an LDV every time, that goes on experience of both of the vehicals. If we were to add in the VW Transporter, I would rather walk, and that would be less strenuous than bump starting it up the dockside. Fortunatly that one is only on hire.

[H48HPE]

The sherpa isnt half as bad as the transit for rust, they stand up to hammer much better, and why develop trendy new switches when older stuff does the job as well the only diference being that second hand spares are easily obtained for sherpa vans (i seem to remember maestro stalks). the sherpa engines are better too. transits tend to be unreliable especialy the older ones, i know id rather be going home in a sherpa than in a transit, i KNOW ill get home in a sherpa but in a transit god knows

[D87 SMW]

What is the Transit Connect all about? Could they not be bothered making the Fiesta or Focus into a minnivan like they did previously? B.T.W, they haven't got any 4x4's on offer at the mo have they?

[Austin-Rover]

The Transit Connect is obviously the result of a cut and shut Fiesta/Transit combination. I am not sure what market they are aiming for with the Transit Connect, but it is probbably the same non-existant one they had for the Ford Fusion!

:laugh:

[D87 SMW]

Ah, the Ford Fusion - another waste of time. :laugh: Wait, aren't all new Fords' a waste of time?

[tony]

as we are sticking the boot in fords,what about the probe now that was a poor car ,never lived upto the hype .
it just quitely died in a corner

[D87 SMW]

The Probe was a nice looking car, it's a shame it was a Ford. :laugh:

[tony]

it just crap at going round corners,it was ment to be a sports car,not a tourer,
what about cars that look ugly from the outside but are great when u get in them ,posh would be the granada with them big big headlights and pratical would be the multipla or frog gone wrong as the wife calls it:laugh:

[malcsmaesty]

Originally posted by tony
as we are sticking the boot in fords,what about the probe now that was a poor car ,never lived upto the hype .
it just quitely died in a corner

i heard it was something to do with the "alan partridge show",because
it showed him driving a probe and sales nosedived!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[D87 SMW]

He's now driving a Lexus, same happened to their sales too! :laugh:

[tony]

lets hope mr p. does not take a liking to our cars ,it will make the montego and maestro a unpopular car.:laugh:

[D87 SMW]

At least it would give these cars some publicity! :laugh:

[John S]

Didn't he drive a gold Rover Sterling as well?

[topgear]

what about the Ford Puma?

If i ever get a broadband connection i must upload a video i did for college to the web somewhere, comparing the Puma and the Maestro, a top gear style production. You'd all love it!

[D87 SMW]

Got held up by a few Fords today when I was on my way to RDGelder's in the Mighty Maesty. Two Escorts, one of which we beat from the lights (0-30mph, that is ;) ) and a Mondeo.

[Strandy]

hmmm, quite a bit of a anti Ford feeling floating around this forum. Personally I think this assault on popular cars has been a little mis-directed. Vectras are crap basically because the new one it similar to the last one and the old one is just like the Mk3 cav - boring.

New Mondeo or Vetra? Mondeo hands down (if you were in the market for a middle of the road family saloon) although I would actually go for a 75 or maybe a ZT+

To make a fair comparison of Fords and the Meastro I think you'd really have to look at the Escort (and escorts from the same era of course)... then consider what exactly defines the comparison? say this is measured in desirability and the amount sold - then the Escort wins!

Why? rally Pedigree, Ford badge, range, dealer network, brand loyalty, resalability, image, Reps, and the fact that they didn't get slated in the press every other week... The Meastro STILL, to this day, gets slated in the press (as we all saw in the Times a little while ago) and in practical classics.

The Meastro is a good car - but for a whole lot of different reasons as to why one might consider the Escort to be a good car. You cannot really say the Maestro is better than Fords in general becuase most modern ford will p!ss on the meastro... Granted a turbo'd meastro may be faster than 1.4 focus but you can't get a meastro with Air con, ABS, airbags, side impact protection systems, ridged Cabin design or EBS...

Anyways, I seem to have ranted quite enough here... haha

However, after watching tonight's topgear - I think I might be buying a new Renault Megane... If you didn't see it - they drove a standard Megane into another car's side at thirty Miles an hour. The driver (with NO protective gear other than a pair of gloves) got out un-harmed and walked away.

[Austin-Rover]

Possibly most peoples hatred for Fords on this forums comes from a strong personal feeling rather than based on facts such as 'Escorts sold better than Maestro's so therefore it was the better car'. Perhaps it has something to do with brand loyalty. How many of you Ford haters out there have had long relationships with Rover's, Austin's and BL cars from the past?

:rolleyes:

[tony]

yes i saw top gear ,make u wonder how many stars our cars would have got, not many i think .

[Austin-Rover]

Originally posted by tony
yes i saw top gear ,make u wonder how many stars our cars would have got, not many i think .


My thoughts exactly. Its not really work thinking about. Just dont try and crash!!!

[tony]

we will be ok as long as we dont hit any collapsable concrete blocks at 40 mph:laugh:

[D87 SMW]

Yes, I saw Top Gear tonight too. Dear god our cars must be one star cars! :banghead: :eek: :o

[Austin-Rover]

It would be interesting comparing a Maestro or Montego to its modern equivilant. I wonder if it would deform as much as the Rover Metro did prior to its withdrawl. That was basically unchanged from the early eighties Metro.

[John S]

Yeah...but the Metro is undeniably worse and it didn't stop anyone buying the mini which is soooooo unsafe! The 'scolloped' sides reinforce the body. I also have a brick of an engine to give me some protection at the front as well

[Austin-Rover]

I would have thought the Metro, Maestro & Montego would all perform in a similar way in a crash. They were designed at roughly the same time.

[D87 SMW]

Aaargh, that's gotta smart! So if that happened to the Metro, why continue that and not the Maestro?

[Austin-Rover]

That picture was the death of the Metro. apparently, it made headline news on the BBC....

[D87 SMW]

...and I'm not surprised. :laugh: :rolleyes:

[John S]

I think I remember that news announcement...only a few years ago - but I've never been much of a fan of the Metro. The Metro has got to be less safe than the Maestro because you are much closer to the dash for one and it is a much smaller car. There is much less of a crumple zone at the front in comparison to the Maestro i.e. the Maestro has a much bulkier/longer bonnet.

[Simon]

I totalled a B reg Maestro in 1989 and walked away. That's why even today I drive a Maestro. In my humble oppinion all this airbag/ABS?SIPS/WHIPS/EBD etc could make some people drive more irresponsibly in the mistaken belief that they can drive closer to the limit and the gadgets will help them out. Rubbish. I could drive a new car if I wanted and if there were no MG Rover cars available here are my, somewhat interesting/or not, choices:

1) Believe it or not, a F*at Stilo 5 door:eek:

2) Something perhaps from the Honda range. I happen to believe that the Honda is a superior motor car. But that's only a personal thing.

3) Having just done a load of work on a C***lier SRi I can now say, yuk! Nothing from GM please!

[E_T_V]

I seem to remember getting a leaflet published by a govenment agency around the time crash tests were starting to become popular probably abound the early 90's. Anyway they ranked all the accident statistics and grouped them by class supermini etc.. Well in its class the maestro was in the top 5, and it was above the average for all the cars they examined (around 100 I think) I'll see if I can track it down sometime as it was interesting reading. By todays standards the meastro is rubbish but back then it was a safe car.

I think my father can vouch for that several times over. He drove a lot of miles and all were not his fault.

Head on into a lorry closing speed around 80mph - He walked away with whiplash.
Rear ended by a merc at 40. Walked away un hurt. Car still drivable.
Side impact at 30. Un hurt.
Side impact at 30. Un hurt.
Side impact at 20. Un hurt. Car still drivable.

[John S]

Found this altered image of a Ford Ka(k)on Sniff Petrol:-
:laugh:

[Wonko_The_Sane]

My line manager has a Ford Puma (or "the mid life crisis" as we know it), and he may be able to overtake me on a big hill where my autobox bogs down, but I can kick his arse royally on takeoffs, junctions, corners and roundabouts.:D

Maestro's are no slouch..and a lot of modern cars just don't seem to have the sheer acceleration of my 14 year old 1.6 Automatic..:) Upto about 55-60 at least..:laugh:

After that, the box is a limiting factor..being only a 3 speed. WHY couldn't it have an overdrive top like my Mk1 Renault 5? That'd have been nice!:rolleyes:

[SimonR]

While on the subject of Fords (if you'll forgive me for saying this) I saw the best mk3 Orion while on the M6 on the way back from Scotland last week. It came battering up behind me in the fast lane at some horrendous speed and looked like an Escort RS. Some one had evidently put a different front end on it and also a full bodykit as well.

Best thing was that the owner obviously had a sense of humour because it had been totally debadged apart from the usual silver Orion badge in the serifed font. On closer inspection tho, the owner had cut up 3 different badges - Escort, Orion and TD (turbo diesel) and made a totally original-looking badge that instead of 'ORION' read 'SORTED'.

Sometimes you have to take your hat off to a professionally Barried up Ford or Vauxhall - this one was certainly in that category.:D

[Maria]

I'm always tempted to rearrange the "Escort" badge to read "Scrote" :D

[e692wtt]

What have I done? All I said was that I respect Transits. Talk about 'light the blue touch paper and stand back'!!!

Apologies if this seems a bit 'late' but it all kicked off in my absence from the Forum while nursing a hangover from hell that lasted 2 days...

I'll get shot for this, but the early Vectra was inferior to the MkIII Cavalier it replaced. It was improved, but why not from day 1? Compare with the Austin Maxi, Allegro, Princess, Marina... and the Maestro and Montego... oops. Once again, BL leads the way - but our cars didn't cost £1 Billion to get wrong...

The other other Rich.:laugh:

[Maria]

Hey. we like our Mk3 Cav!!! :)

[e692wtt]

Good for you. They're pretty good cars (that's praise from me - I HATE Vauxhalls) and they were far better than the Vauxhall Verruca (thanks to RDGelder for that one!) when it was first launched - only fault, really, is the corrosion on the rear wheelarches, otherwise they run and run. Keep it and enjoy.

I saw a Ford scrotE on a Rally once - and yes, it WAS re-arranged like that! Still an Escort on the paperwork though.

The other other Rich.:)

[John S]

Don't know much about Vauxhall's petrol models but any Isuzu engined diesel model will run and run without any hint of giving up. We like in particular the Nova 1.5D models as they are capable of 200,000 miles plus - we've got two of them.
A friend of mine's parents had a 2.0 cavalier and after having the car it was difficult for them to choose any other model. It reached over 170,000 miles before any problems were encountered. Vauxhalls lack a great deal of prestige and are rather utilitarian, however they are well put together in my experience.

[Maria]

The Cav's got over 250k on the clock, and has had a recon engine, which it promtly detonated no 3 piston on! It's now got a mix n match engine, but it keeps on going. The rear arches are going though.

On the subject of Scrotes, I like the "Austin Roast Em" that comes out to play in the MGOC racing championship :D

[matthewsemple]

Originally posted by RDGelder
I would have thought the Metro, Maestro & Montego would all perform in a similar way in a crash. They were designed at roughly the same time.

I disagree. Whilst the Maestro would not match up against the latest cars like that Renault Megane on Top Gear, it is much, much safer than the Metro.

More room under the bonnet allows impact to be absored and not as much is transfered into the cabin. Although it is a promotional picture, the yellow Maestro from the 1983 brochure is being crashed at speed and the passenger compartment is intact.

:banghead:

[Wonko_The_Sane]

Maria-it's no worse than the altered GTi on the back of mine. GiT seems to suit..;)