Hi All, new on the forums

[H536NOG]

Hi to all, just joined the forums (already a club member for the second year :) )
I have finally got my hands on another Monty after a break of nearly 2 years :giveup: ... got the one I always dreamed of at last...an MG :beer:
Pics have been uploaded to my domain, http://www.soduhall.co.uk/monty & updates will go up as soon as I get the opportunity to make some progress on the car (new rear arches, sills, T16 turbo transplant ).
Hope to speak with you all soon
Regards
Nige

[H536NOG]

Ooops link doesnt seem to work at the moment, try www.soduhall.co.uk then click on the 'Monty' link :rolleyes:

[D87 SMW]

Sodu Hall! :laugh: :laugh: :D :thumbup:

Welcome to the forums, I am sure I saw that MG Montego for sale on here recently. :p

[H536NOG]

Hi & many thanks for the warm welcome :)
The car was for sale in the classifieds section, thats where I found it.
Looking back to issue 13 of Monstro it was in there too (Nuneaton this time), the guy I bought it off had bought it from the guy in Nuneaton & subsequently done nothing with it... then I get involved!!
The overall condition is superb so I shall be removing both sills & both rear wheelarches to replace with new metal (I thought I had retired my MIG welder but I guess not, time to dust it off & make Monty solid again... at least the good weather is on the way :) )
The engine / running gear is in superb condition along with a full new exhaust & rad fitted but they will not match up to the T16 turbo engine I plan to fit :horror:
Regards
NigeOriginally posted by F170 GGT
Sodu Hall! :laugh: :laugh: :D :thumbup:

Welcome to the forums, I am sure I saw that MG Montego for sale on here recently. :p

[MGTurbo]

A warm welcome to you Nige, and glad you have seen the light and stopped messing about with them silly V6 800's ;)

If you need more info on a T16 conversion, i have a good friend of mine with an identical car to yours which started life as a 2.0i and may be of some use to you.

I also know the whereabouts of a proper O Series Turbo which would slot in nicely and is a lot more fun than a standard T16 :cool:

Did you scrap my old Vitesse then?

Gareth

[H536NOG]

Hi Gareth, great to bump into you again :)
Yes J918SWK did get scrapped, It had a V6 manual under the bonnet, a V6 with a manual, a V^ with an auto & Si Stirleys old auto box all thrown inside along with more 285 calipers & V6 driveshafts than you have ever seen... it was stacked to the headlining !! LITERALLY!! , sat on its bumpstops & weighed in at very nearly 3 tonnes!!
I signed up on finance for a Laguna but its from the wrong stable so only managed 2 months without an MG/Rover (my heart lies with Montego's anyway so I have a smile from ear to ear at he moment)
I would be really grateful for any info regarding the conversion & have my eye on a 180 Vit at the moment.
Best Regards
Nige Originally posted by MGTurbo
A warm welcome to you Nige, and glad you have seen the light and stopped messing about with them silly V6 800's ;)

If you need more info on a T16 conversion, i have a good friend of mine with an identical car to yours which started life as a 2.0i and may be of some use to you.

I also know the whereabouts of a proper O Series Turbo which would slot in nicely and is a lot more fun than a standard T16 :cool:

Did you scrap my old Vitesse then?

Gareth

[MGTurbo]

I'll give you the basics and it really is simple.

O series engine mounts, driver's side inner wing one modded to clear cambelt, front crossmember cut out and welded to allow power steering pump to clear, and minor wiring which is perfectly within your capabilites as you have done a T Series to Honda V6 PGM-FI. There are other little bits and pieces like exhaust fabrication (for which you'll need a system of 2.25 inch minimum)

Vitesse 180 spec is obviously the most common, but be aware that most are very leggy on the miles and rings start to wear, as do the bores which go oval, more so when oil changes are neglected.

My friend who has the T16 Monty has a number of spares available including a half leather interior froma R220 Coupe with back seat re-trimmed, and also a recon oil pump etc, give me a shout if you need anything.

Shame about my old Rover, bodily it was great, should have kept the old girl really but needed the cash at the time.


'young boy' Gareth

[H536NOG]

How many times do you think I have turned my right leg around & booted myself up the behind for not keeping that car & saving myself a fortune on this Renault? :banghead:
The Lag only goes forwards... AD4 autobox that has decided not to work in reverse any more, 1 month warranty from dealer...got car 2 months ago!:(
I have had a 'cheap' quote to do the box of £400 !!! thats 3 x Rover 800s !
So the Lag will be sitting on the drive as soon as the Monty is done.
Changing track slightly>>>
I can have a 180 Vit for £210 which as you rightly state will be leggy, this being a MEMS I would expect it to be almost 'plug'n'play' on the loom...I was aware of the downpipe issue & the std. peashooter exhaust would need to be changed but what is the story with the O turbo? is it more sense?
Regards
Nige

[MGTurbo]

Originally posted by H536NOG
How many times do you think I have turned my right leg around & booted myself up the behind for not keeping that car & saving myself a fortune on this Renault? :banghead:
The Lag only goes forwards... AD4 autobox that has decided not to work in reverse any more, 1 month warranty from dealer...got car 2 months ago!:(
I have had a 'cheap' quote to do the box of £400 !!! thats 3 x Rover 800s !
So the Lag will be sitting on the drive as soon as the Monty is done.
Changing track slightly>>>
I can have a 180 Vit for £210 which as you rightly state will be leggy, this being a MEMS I would expect it to be almost 'plug'n'play' on the loom...I was aware of the downpipe issue & the std. peashooter exhaust would need to be changed but what is the story with the O turbo? is it more sense?
Regards
Nige

I have experienced both engine in both cars so my opinion is not unbiased, the O series when in good shape is a very strong engine, and feels and IS more torquey mid-range than a T16 with similar tune.

There is a huge myth that a T16 will make 230+bhp with standard boost but different exhaust and filtration and this is not true, a number of guys from RoverTech went to a RR day today, typical figures of 205bhp/195-215lb ft from 12-13psi) compares well with my O series turbo which running 13psi produced 200bhp and 220 lb ft.

In your case its not so clear cut because you dont have the Turbo already installed, i would say if you cannot source a decent O series Turbo you can only go to T16. But for all its zero lag and supposed better MPG it all seems a little boring and a O Series running the same amount of power will be more fun and gives you that proper 'old skool' turbo delivery and more original in that they did come fitted with them from the factory.

Basically if you can source a decent 'O' its rude not to bung it in, you dont have the cross member issues, the exhaust and wiring to do, and less chance of bashing the sump aswell.

Gareth

[H536NOG]

>>Basically if you can source a decent 'O' its rude not to bung it in
I love that line :laugh:
There will come a time when the 'O' lumps are very thin on the ground so I feel one of the MGM turbo owners (like yourself) would be better to have all access to the available engines.
I did not intend taking a T16 past its standard output (what does an MG Montego weigh Vs an 820 Vit? (instant advantage which equates to a power hike, I would expect a T16 turbo Montego to hit 60 in less than 7 & tickle a genuine 145/150 with the right PG1 box on it (pass me the diff bearings
:laugh: )
I dont need any more than that (827 Vit's go all wobbly above 145[been there done that lots of times] & they weigh a tonne & a half so those speeds in a Monty that weighs a tonne max... no ta !!) & think 180 bhp (bearing in mind a H plate does not need a 'cat' so it may actually get near that figure ) is sufficient to put a smile on my face :)
Nige

[MGTurbo]

Originally posted by H536NOG
>>Basically if you can source a decent 'O' its rude not to bung it in
I love that line :laugh:
There will come a time when the 'O' lumps are very thin on the ground so I feel one of the MGM turbo owners (like yourself) would be better to have all access to the available engines.
I did not intend taking a T16 past its standard output (what does an MG Montego weigh Vs an 820 Vit? (instant advantage which equates to a power hike, I would expect a T16 turbo Montego to hit 60 in less than 7 & tickle a genuine 145/150 with the right PG1 box on it (pass me the diff bearings
:laugh: )


I dont need any more than that (827 Vit's go all wobbly above 145[been there done that lots of times] & they weigh a tonne & a half so those speeds in a Monty that weighs a tonne max... no ta !!) & think 180 bhp (bearing in mind a H plate does not need a 'cat' so it may actually get near that figure ) is sufficient to put a smile on my face :)
Nige

Monty Turbo 8 valve weighs about 1090kg, look on closer to 1100kg for a T16, Vitesse weighs 1350kg?

Top speed will be good with a 3.65-1 Diff i.e STD 220 Turbo box or STD Maestro/Monty. I got 152mph indicated once
:D

I am currently rebuilding my O Series to a higher spec, hardest part was sourcing the pistons but everything else is cheap, and it will be about 50% less in overall cost to tune it to my desired power level as opposed to a T16.

If you only want 180bhp you can get this running a good exhaust set up and 11-12psi boost on the 8 valve, and more importantly, it will be much more fun!

I think if you experienced a decent 8 valve and compared it to a T16 there would be no competition. Matey's T16 Monty was almost like a NASP in its power delivery and not much faster than a Vitesse because it had the longer gearing.

Problem is sourcing one, and i do know of one going complete at the moment but need to confirm the mileage.

Gareth

[H536NOG]

I have followed progress on your car with a keen interest & know you have really worked hard at getting reliable power out of it, I originally thought you had a T16t in it... how wrong could I be !
I should really leave the Monty as it is because it is original but you know me Gareth, even if its not broke I have an overwhelming urge to 'fix it'... this is how they should have built it
:eek:
All those myths of major torque steer ( I have no idea if they are true or not) put me off an 8v turbo, I recall my T16 turbo, it was amazingly tractable & felt 'bigger' than 2 litres, it looks gorgeous under the bonnet of a Maestro / Montego too :beer:

[MGTurbo]

Originally posted by H536NOG
I have followed progress on your car with a keen interest & know you have really worked hard at getting reliable power out of it, I originally thought you had a T16t in it... how wrong could I be !
I should really leave the Monty as it is because it is original but you know me Gareth, even if its not broke I have an overwhelming urge to 'fix it'... this is how they should have built it
:eek:
All those myths of major torque steer ( I have no idea if they are true or not) put me off an 8v turbo, I recall my T16 turbo, it was amazingly tractable & felt 'bigger' than 2 litres, it looks gorgeous under the bonnet of a Maestro / Montego too :beer:

Looks is a plus point, it really does fit nice and snug under there but no-one can see that when your driving :)

Torque steer is not a problem regardless of which engine is fitted, my car lowered with 6x15 MGF alloys and tracking set to parallel grips better than my Monty TD... It's just a question of getting it all in good condition which many are not in the suspension department because of age and neglect.

Any help and advice if you want it, just ask. Where abouts in Lincs are you BTW?

Gareth

[H536NOG]

Pretty well Lincoln itself (2 miles out of the city centre)

[talkingcars]

Hi "NOG", that is a clean looking car, the white ones always look horible when the rust bites.

Which ever engine you do fit will get the best acceleration if you keep your current gearbox but at the expense of top speed and running at higher revs than the standard box for that engine, but reading your posts I guess you know that.

Personally I would go for the T16 for its NA style power delivery and greater availabilty than the O8. Actully I am still playing with the idea of the 827 honda lump in my 2.0i maestro.

In the meantime, replace that mising pipe from the intake on the airbox, just taking a feed from under the headlight will give you a slight improvment in response over the current intake or even the normal intake from the drivers side of the engine bay with the air nicly warmed as it runs over the radiator.

James

[TurboMG]

If you do fit a T16 engine from an 800 to your monty make sure you change the sump to a 220 one, the 800 one sits a lot lower then a monty one and also the 800 and I lost 2 before I switched to a 220 one, this also means you will have to fit a 220 downpipe and oil pick up strainer though.

[H536NOG]

The intake pipe is in the boot & looking a bit sorry for itself :(
The pics were taken by the previous owner (no snow ... I only got the car yesterday) so there is slightly more than you can see on those pics, basically it is brown at the base of both 'A' pillars where they meet the sills, same at the base of the 'B' pillars, the rear arches are just starting (o/s bubbling up a bit) so I shall replace both sills & both rear arches.
It looks like its had a coat of paint too, the bottom front corner(n/s headlight near grille) has clearly been filled, that will be coming out & fresh metal going in along with lead to finish it instead of filler... by autumn it will be 100% solid again.
Regarding fitting a C27A lump into a Maestro / Montego ... It is not a viable proposition, I had 3 of those engines sat around (Mrs. was going wild & likened the place to Steptoe's yard :rage: )
The removable side covers (take them off to adjust exhaust tappets) are the widest point of the VEE, running a tape measure across there shows the engine to be 1/2 an inch narrower than Maest/Mont from bulkhead to slam panel, also... your servo/ master cylinder is in the way.
Ok so you could lengthen the inner & outer front wings by 4 or 6 inches, severely abuse your bulkhead to give a little clearance (or done properly by adding a couple of inches between bulkhead & suspension turret then adding another couple of inches between suspension turret & slam panel.
Fit a remote pedal box (or even a cross link like the Mk3/4 escort to get the servo/mc out of the way)
Then learn how to crochet with a PGMFi loom & make it all fit/ work with your car...fit an S4 autobox with the V6, that makes the loom interesting. :banghead:
We have not even touched on the subject of engine mounts yet...not a major issue though.
As Gareth will tell you, I have messed about with these engines in several cars including the autoboxes & I can tell you, they arent all that ! a NASP T16 is more tractable at low revs, yes the C27A is a fast powerful engine but it needs its neck ringing to get much out of it, there is not a lot below 4k, it is also very expensive to do anything with (tappet side cover seals which look like big 'O' rings... over £12 each main dealer part only), its a Honda engine so nothing is cheap & due to their age now they are not that reliable any more.
If you want a bit more there is either an M16 or a T16 but the choice is yours.
Nige

[MGTurbo]

If you want NASP power delivery go for a NASP. You want proper turbo style delivery and fun go for an O series Turbo, you do have to try both to see that there is nothing wrong with the drivabilty of the 8 valve and can be just as responsive but tthe bigger turbo does take longer to spool up.

I dont see this as a problem when i can hit full boost by 2600rpm in 4th.

Once my engine has been rebuilt to its new spec i'll take Nige out for a spin in it, then he can get a chance to compare to the T16, might be able to compare to my mate's T16 Monty, i'll be quicker every time :laugh:

Gareth

[H536NOG]

Gareth, take a look at this, it would get you on boost immediately you go wide open throttle... right up your street this one :horror:

http://www.dynopower.freeserve.co.uk/nitrous_oxide/index.htm