'Classics' Magazine Review

[Austin-Rover]

The current issue of 'Classics' Magazine (April 2004) includes a review of the Club's website....

The Maestro & Montego Owners Club

This is a superb club website; its professional, welcoming and informative. There are some neat touches too - the photo archive is a great idea and a useful resource, plus the navigation around the site is easy, with simple graphics that don't take forever to download (other Webmasters please take note). If you have an interest in these underrated British cars, i suggest you check it out.

4/5 Stars Rating

:)

[D87 SMW]

Sounds good, but where's the website? :confused:

;) :laugh:

[Beaker]

I presume you are trying to be funny Steve. Should I laugh now?


Thanks for the info Rich, I will have to seek it out in the newsagents to have a read.

[Maria]

Fantastic! All credit to Jonathan :)

[D87 SMW]

Originally posted by Skatiechik
I presume you are trying to be funny Steve. Should I laugh now?

Thinking about it, perhaps I was. :p If you can find your sense of humor, then you can laugh if you want, but I'm not thinking for you.

:) :D :laugh:

Well done to Jonathan for all his hard work on the site. :thumbup:

[e692wtt]

Nice work Jonathan, and the Committee as well, perhaps the classic car tide is finally turning in our cars' favour? And not soon enough.


And Steve, are your comments re "where's the website?" and peoples' sense of humour really necessary or relevant in this post? I don't think so.

This is a serious matter regarding our cars' future acceptance as Classics, which is a point I think is being missed by your good self...

[Austin-Rover]

....And not to be outdone by a rival mag - 'Practical Classics' has an article on the 'Etsong' Maestro. make of this what you will, i was under the impression it was only FAW making Monstro's in china...

Great Confucius he say: Maestro will rise in the East

We're greatful to reader Barnaby Swire of Kent for sending us an impressive spread of sales literature about the Montego-based vehicles now produced at a former cigarette factory at Qindao, China.........Theres a picture of a small four-pot motor and from the stated capacity of 1342cc we reckon its the same Toyota unit as found in the Montego/Maestro hybrid known as the Lubao CA410 as reported in the January Edition. There are no Hybrids in the Etsong range with the Maestro Van and hatchback, Montego Saloon and Estate all on offer.....

Quite an interesting development if there are two companies producing these cars - and now Montegos appear to be in China..

[D87 SMW]

The Etsong Lubao is the "Maestro." The FAW Lubao is the "Monstro."

I told you this the other day. :rolleyes:

[SimonR]

Originally posted by RDGelder
The Maestro & Montego Owners Club

This is a superb club website; its professional, welcoming and informative.[/B]

Damn right! Well done to all who have worked so hard. It's easy to forget that when one logs on every day to see what's developed on the forum over night. It's all so much more interesting than actual work!

I took A335 for it's first run to London and back this weekend and it's easy to forget it's officially a classic because it drives so well and feels so reassuring at 70 mph on the motorway. I also managed to get fuel consumption of 37.8 mpg on the trip down the A1 and M25 on friday, which was nice.

My sister is currently living in China and is sending me the odd DVD and silk item - I wonder if she could find me a Monstro on the black market?! It's getting it home that's the problem :)

[Austin-Rover]

Originally posted by F170 GGT
The Etsong Lubao is the "Maestro." The FAW Lubao is the "Monstro."

I told you this the other day. :rolleyes:

Yes, but they've never mentioned the Montego before - i know fully what the differance between FAW and Etsong is....

:rolleyes:

[tony]

well done everybody from the people running the site ,to all of you that use the site :thumbup: a well run site,run very well.

[Mat_C]

I think Jonathan should give up his day job and work as a web-site designer! :)

That review says everything I've always thought of the site.

[Simon]

Excellent news. There was even a Maestro offered for sale in the Practical Classics classifieds, forget the price but well over the odds.


Lighten up everybody thanks.

[Maria]

Speaking of Practical Classics, I had the opportunity to remind a certain Will Holman of his past indiscretions at the Heritage Motorsport Show yesterday. And if you're reading this, Will, you look like some sort of drag queen in that furry coat.

[Dave]

:D :laugh:

[Jonathan]

Believe it or not we didn't even have to pay/bribe Classics to write that review, in fact this is the first I heard of it! They didn't mention the best bit though, these very forums which are what makes the site for most of us and which EVERYONE has contributed much to - usually in a positive way. The rest of the site has remained relatively unchanged for quite a while, perhaps too long.

I found some of the letters about whether 80s cars are classics or not made interesting reading too. Nice to see more and more people beginning to give it some thought at last.

[SimonR]

Originally posted by Maria
Speaking of Practical Classics,

As indeed some people were, I took a look at the list of clubs at the end of PC magazine and between the Historic Lotus Register and the Manta V8 Reg there is a peculiar lack of MMOC. Is that for any particular reason - I know that PC haven't been particularly kind to the Maesty in the past.

[Jonathan]

We should be in there, try looking under "A" for Austin. If not I'll make some enquiries.

[Beaker]

We were in there last time I read the magazine which was about two issues ago.

[SimonR]

Originally posted by D428CHO
We should be in there, try looking under "A" for Austin.

Ah, yes you're right! Sorry I was just being stoopid. We are listed after all. :)

[D87 SMW]

Originally posted by e692wtt
And Steve, are your comments re "where's the website?" and peoples' sense of humour really necessary or relevant in this post? I don't think so.


Oh? This isn't humour then:

Originally posted by Maria
And if you're reading this, Will, you look like some sort of drag queen in that furry coat.

Originally posted by Dave
:D :laugh:

????? :confused:

:rolleyes:

[Dave]

Sorry for laughing. I'll try not to in future.

Dave.






:laugh:




:censored: sorry, i tried.

[Austin-Rover]

Originally posted by F170 GGT
Oh? This isn't humour then:

????? :confused:


I think your Sarcasm sensor is broken if it took you this long to spot.

[D87 SMW]

Originally posted by RDGelder
I think your Sarcasm sensor is broken if it took you this long to spot.

Sarcasm sensor? Broken? This long to spot? Don't talk such crap.

:rolleyes:

[Dave]

Im sorry. But i thought we decided on NO HUMOUR, please stick to the rules!

[maestromad]

seems the playground bullies are out in force

[H536NOG]

Sorry but the last time I saw Holman (when he took that ridiculously bodged Ford Crapi abroad) he looked like Mark Fowler should look ( work it out).
I used to buy PC but he (& his unterlings) have ruined a good mag, I for one do not see the need to add sexual inuendo to a magazine supposedly dedicated to cars. (car mags, 1st, 2nd & 3rd shelf....that crap sits on the top shelf....I am also old enough to recall 'fast car' being solely about cars (we all know what a female body looks like & it doesnt need to be draped over a car to sell a magazine...Fiesta& Escort are NOT car mags!))
Yet another rant over!
Originally posted by Maria
Speaking of Practical Classics, I had the opportunity to remind a certain Will Holman of his past indiscretions at the Heritage Motorsport Show yesterday. And if you're reading this, Will, you look like some sort of drag queen in that furry coat.

[D87 SMW]

Originally posted by maestromad
seems the playground bullies are out in force

Ah, it's not that hard to spot then. One rule for one, and another for the others it seems.

[tony]

i think its about time we had a stop on this thread,
calm down eh eh eh:)

[maestromad]

i think its about time we had a stop on this thread,

its about freedom of speach this and doing what one pleases (within the law) in a free country.

If you believe in shutting people up and stopping them having an oppinion I suggest you go to a country where they have no proper democracy , take cuba or somewhere like that, you would fit in well

[Beaker]

Originally posted by F170 GGT
Ah, it's not that hard to spot then. One rule for one, and another for the others it seems.

I don't think it is that at all Steve. Just the majority of people didn't find your post funny and on topic whereas the other post was funny and in context to reviews in magazines.

[e692wtt]

Originally posted by Skatiechik
I don't think it is that at all Steve. Just the majority of people didn't find your post funny and on topic whereas the other post was funny and in context to reviews in magazines.

Right, I'm taking no prisoners here, I'm quoted at the top of this page (page [2])...

I agree with Skatiechik.

The other post may seem a bit 'off the wall' but it is relevant to this topic as it concerns the acceptability and credibility of *our* cars as Classics in the future. To those of us who have witnessed the demise of Pr*ct*c*l Cl*ss*cs over the last year or so and especially since June 2003, it defines everything, in my opinion, that is wrong with PC. I mean, and this only raised a few comments, PC did an item on the MG Maestro last year, with the help of our own Simon Heap (and others) and the mag published, I seem to recall, a pic of an MG ZT's engine bay instead of the expected Maestro one... now *that* summed up the demise of the mag for me. Very sad. The mag has some very good writers, but it is let down by the Editor in my view.

So yes, Maria's reply was, in my opinion, very much on-topic and extremely relevant.

And there's no need to be rude, I've managed to control my temper and not swear in *this* reply...;)

This is an extremely important topic, the be all and end all of our Cars' future Classic Car Attainment. That's why people ain't laughing...

[Quality]

I have to disagree, I like pratical classics, to put the wrong picture in is silly, but hardly means the magazine is a load of old manure. Will Holman has now moved on, and I still think it is the best classic magazine.

[e692wtt]

It's a lot more than just one wrong picture. I can give examples but don't think it is relevant at this point. Facts, basic facts, either lacking or plain wrong. And for a period of time, not just one item in one particular issue.

When did Mr Holman depart? I hope PC returns to its glory days of a few years ago, I really do. The writers are there to do this, just the editorial content was lacking. Imagine my surprise at finding the word 'fellatio' in a recent edition I aquired by accident... now *that* is editorial pride... (he said sarcastically).

A history of taking the mickey out of Austin, Morris and the rest is merely an aside, and this included the Maestro and a personal attack on Simon Heap in the magazine... do you remember that? This is what 'did for' PC for many of us.

I am unable to find a Classic Car mag that engages me like PC did from early 2000 to late 2002, so I don't bother. I wish I could though.

This, above, is merely my opinion, and if Mr Holman has gone I will give the mag another go.

[D87 SMW]

I don't quite see how someone looking like a "drag queen" has any relevence at all as to the review of the website, which is what the thread was based on, whereas, I posted one little joke which really, was on the subject. I cannot believe that one simple little crack like "but where's the website?" can spark off how it did. It was an obvious joke, and all should know I feel this is a great website already. I remember occasions where if I had not gone along with someones joke, I had someone, at least one person, on my back.
So, since I have tried to "lighten up" it has got me nowhere, it seems.
We all know by now that we are all different, including our senses of humour, but there seems to be a small group of people who I feel are being rather hypocritical, and petty towards some people outside of this little group.
If a member who has been this for so long is being treated in such a manner, I am not surprised there have been several new members who have felt to be rejected, and have left altogether. I don't really blame them to be honest.
Maestromad for example, is a new member himself, and I think he see's already the point I am making. This could be because this group is giving him the same impression as they have me, by being harsh on him for his eBay use. There have been several threads on these forums regarding this matter, and I thought people had come to the conclusion that most people think differently about how they use eBay. This, as well as the humour issue has been overlooked somewhat by this group, I feel.
I have grown up around this club and over the past year, the forums too. Basically, I am sick of people trying to knock me down, and trying to make me believe I am immature/childish. Instead of moaning on this way, why not try and be a bit more positive?
It's not given me a good impression of certain people, and it will only do the same for the new members.
Any advice as to what I may have done to people would be quite useful here, as I would love to know.
Points have been made often before, as to the treatment of some people, and I have to say I can back them up.
How convenient it was, Lindsey, for nobody to laugh at one of my jokes. I'm sure Maria's joke was a howler.
I'm not asking to be highly regarded to everybody in the club, that would be selfish. All I am asking is for some kind of equality.

Had this post been made earlier in the day, I am sure it could have been a lot harsher, but right now I am tired, stressed out, and do not need people stabbing me in the back.

I am not taking any more knock-downs from anybody. If they have a problem with me, it is their problem. I will not change to suit others, if people cannot accept me for who I am then I don't care less.

Rant over? Maybe not.

[Dave]

I think my sarcasm sensor is on the blink - im having trouble working out if this post has gone seriously AWOL or just having a laugh still.

Nothing to do with these cars is worth getting upset about. We are a club of like-minded (in some senses) enthusiasts and should be more tolerant to each other.

Perhaps we should let this sensitive topic rest now.

[SimonR]

Originally posted by Dave
Perhaps we should let this sensitive topic rest now.

Agreed.

BTW, great Avatar, Steve. 'Open All Hours' - it really does seems so sometimes when I log onto the forum at about 08:30 and am still reading it a midnight!

I didn't know what has been going on at PC for the past few years - all I knew was that they haven't been very kind to our cars in the past. Hopefully things will change now Mr. Droopy Draws has left.

[SteveC]

Originally posted by RDGelder
Yes, but they've never mentioned the Montego before - i know fully what the differance between FAW and Etsong is....

:rolleyes:

http://www.new-version.com/showthread/t-1696.html

My god, a bar steward child of two former greats, if ever there was... :D

[H48HPE]

I know this is again going away from the original topic of this post but is on topic for what this post has actually become.

Its not pleasant when a person is victimised, people may not realise they are doing it but from what I've seen they quite clearly are (and to some extent know they are), it seems that there are not many people coming out in support of Steve with this one, well I’m not going to be ashamed to stand up and say I think that those people moaning about Steve's post should all grow up, (sounds like something you would say to kids that?????). I too happen to believe that there is a ring leader in all this who perhaps should know better, (no names mentioned) to be quite honest I don’t care if I fall out of favour with some people anymore, I’m going to say what I feel.

I know it was the aim of the forum to become a community as such but I fear that this may now be turning into a closed circle or at least the beginnings of one. I’m unsure of the best way to tackle this problem from my side as yet, I believe in being proactive not reactive.

If this thread were to be closed, as some it would appear would like it to be, that would be tragic. It would mean that people were being suppressed from saying what the believed to be right, there’s nothing at all wrong with a healthy argument (even if it may get heated), it clears the air and lets people get off their chest things they should be saying for a community to really work and personalities to form. Instead people are afraid of being them selves for fear of upsetting someone. (As per Steve's post)

I feel I should urge members who feel as I do to join Steve, and myself and try and get back to a thriving community of differing personalities. Thus attracting people of all types and backgrounds to join in and feel relaxed at doing so.

(Please feel free to throw all of this back at me but I assure you I’m not stirring this, its genuine concerns)

Andy :banghead:

[F690OTF(RIP)]

I'm not going to enter into the details of the slightly philosophical debate of forum hierarchy, tolerance, etc. However, I'm afraid I disagree with those who were so heavily chastising Steve for his initial comment. In light of the unrest I've caused in recent weeks by expressing facts, let alone opinions, I decided that expressing this view on the open forum might be unwise. However, I feel that Andy's comments have paved the way somewhat, as it were, so I shall paste in what I said to Steve in a PM the other day.


--------------------------------------------------
I don't think it would be fair for you to feel that everyone was against you. I know I've been one to disagree with you sometimes in the past, but I have to say that, broadly speaking, you're in the right here.

I'll admit it took me a little while to spot your initial "Where's the website?" comment as a joke, but that's merely because it's so difficult to detect sarcasm in textual form. Had you made the comment audibly in a room, I would have been the first to laugh. I think it was funny, and I don't think it was offensive, because, as you say, everyone who reads these forums with any regularity at all knows that you have as high a regard for this website as any of us. It certainly didn't make any direct derogatory comments about someone else, unlike Maria's comment.

I think Skatiechik's immediate response was somewhat pointless. Of course it was supposed to be funny; as we've already said, there's no way it could possibly have been meant seriously. OK, so maybe she didn't find it funny. That's not a crime, but neither is telling a joke which not everyone finds funny; if we all had the same sense of humour life could get a little boring.

Apparently e692wtt didn't find it funny either, but, again, that's no reason to dismiss it as inappropriate. Had your joke contained content of a profane, obscence, racist, or the like, content, then it would have been reasonable, since you would have been contradicting the forum rules. But you weren't. It certainly wasn't off-topic. As for the comment about it being a serious matter regarding our cars' acceptance as classics and you missing the point... Well, I disagree right from the start. The review was of the website, and the only comment pertaining to the cars themselves referred to them merely as "underrated". It's nice to hear, but hardly the highest praise. It's not even as if anybody else had started a serious discussion on the subject of our cars' status as a result of Rich's initial post; yours was the first, and the thread has subsequently turned into a discussion on the merits or otherwise of certain magazines and our cars' worthiness of classic status.


I think a large part of this argument is a result of people posting before they think, i.e., not taking long enough to work out that your comment couldn't possible be serious and to imagine what it would be like in a spoken context, in which it would certainly be funny (in my opinion, at least). Once again, decent, well-meaning people are the subject of an over-reaction on the forums.
I would encourage you to bear this kind of incident in mind when making future comments, not because such comments are out of order, but because it would appear that not everybody is that good at inferring the appropriate tones into typed comments and therefore misses the point. I have learned through embarrassing experience that one sometimes has to suffer backlash for having a dry or intelligent sense of humour. We just have to get a feel for the contexts in which it is appreciated and the contexts in which it's frowned upon or misunderstood. Unfortunately, this is never easy. I would not have predicted the reaction to this particular example.

As you've said, the forums, like the whole of humanity, are very diverse. We share one thing in common, but not everything. This means that not everyone will find the same things funny. However, it does, thankfully, mean that the likelihood is that a few other people will find the same things funny. They just don't always say so when you're taking the rap!
--------------------------------------------------------


At the end of the day, I think Jonathan's opinion on the comment in question is the most important, since it is with him that the responsibility for the website lies. So, Jonathan, did you find it amusing? How long did it take you to work out that it was a joke?


Finally, I think we should be very careful in thinking of the forums as a community. Not because they aren't, but because it is all too easy to overlook the inherent diversities of human nature. For those of you who are Simpsons fans, I would point to the episode in which Lisa joins Mensa, and the intelligentsia of Springfield try to rule the town when the Mayor flees. Despite having huge intelligence in common, these genii end up arguing over the pettiest of things. Now, I'm not trying to make any comments about inner-circles or anything like that. In fact I'm somewhat sceptical about the theories of an inner-circle on the forum in terms of takeover bids or any of these other wild theories, although I can see what might cause such theories to develop. I'm merely trying to encourage us all (and yes, I do include myself) to avoid making mountains out of molehills at all costs.

[D87 SMW]

Sorry for dragging this thread on again, but the problem described will only get worse if nothing is done.
I agree with H48HPE, in the sense that I do not care if I fall out of favour with anyone, as it is not my intention to do so. I want to be able to get along with people, as we are all in this club together. There shouldn't be any falling out, but if there are people being petty and putting other people (usually targets) down, then I don't want to associate with them.
I was pushed around, and moaned at at one point, for not being as happy and jolly as others. After taking their advice, due to my believing that they were actually my friends, I tried to "lighten up."
After doing so, I am being criticised further by people who I am sorry I ever met in the first place.
I have been close (several times) to telling these people exactly what they can do with themselves, but I try not to be like that, hence why they are still at it.
H48HPE (Andy) believes there is a ring leader, and I agree. They do such to people, and still have a good following from people who have good impressions of them. Mainly because the rest of the group cannot see what it is doing to people, and foolishly make a cover up.
I am not giving up on this club, and will remain here on the forums, despite what happens. However, I will keep on this subject until something is done about it.

If you think you can get force me out of this club, you can think again.

Thanks to both Andy (H48HPE) and Peter (F690OTF(RIP)) for their input on this matter.

PS: If anyone feels they have been treated the same, or can at least see that it is happening, please feel free to send me a Private Message.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by F690OTF(RIP)
At the end of the day, I think Jonathan's opinion on the comment in question is the most important, since it is with him that the responsibility for the website lies. So, Jonathan, did you find it amusing? How long did it take you to work out that it was a joke?


You want my opinion? Ok then. I'm afraid that one went straight over my head, and I still think I'm missing something. It's often said it's the way you tell them that matters, and it doesn't always work in writing.

Steve obviously feels that he is being victimised, and whether this is true or not I would remind you all to read through the guidelines again and think carefully of the consequences before posting anything especially where it's aimed at another user.

If you do have an issue with another user, you should either confront them privately by PM to try and resolve the problem or tell me about it (or another member of the committee if you feel more comfortable) rather than resorting to long winded threads like this which not only dampen the atmosphere for everyone but they're unlikely to be very constructive either, quite the opposite in fact and that's why they end up getting closed.

What's been going wrong these last few weeks? Let's all cheer up a bit please, I hope I'm not asking too much.

[SteveC]

Guys...: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~g-b-dix/arguing1.jpg

;)

[H48HPE]

What's been going wrong these last few weeks? Let's all cheer up a bit please, I hope I'm not asking too much.

I think its this crap weather were going through, probably the worst time of year for your average maestro owner!



Guys...: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~g-b-dix/arguing1.jpg

I dont think thats a very appropriate link if im being honest. still If you find it ammusing then thats that

[e692wtt]

Originally posted by SteveC

Guys...: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~g-b-dix/arguing1.jpg


Originally posted by H48HPE
I dont think thats a very appropriate link if im being honest. still If you find it ammusing then thats that


I agree, good to see this thread going ever more off topic. That's partly sarcastic (second part of the first sentence of this paragraph, in case anyone's wondering...).

Having nursed someone very close to me, who *just* happened to be disabled (and people who know me know who I am talking about), for several years to their untimely death, having been inspired by their strength of character, I find this link, errm, somewhat distasteful. That's being polite and diplomatic, not swearing either...


Ok...

You're in a good, and I mean *good*, pub on a friday night, pint of Wadworth 6X in hand, and, being a CAMRA member, say to your mate "Hey, this boozer got a good write-up in the latest CAMRA guide!" and he replies "Where's the pub then?". Would you laugh at that?


Anyway, I stand by what I said, and would suggest that people look 'outside' at certain alleged Classic Car Magazines running down 'our' cars (ie Maria's post, historical grief off Mr Holman [editor of Practical Classics and see my previous posts for some details]) as well as the whole of BLMC's and all successive organisations' cars - and compare this with the positive feedback the Club received that led to the original posting of this thread (so is this *really* irrelevant???), as opposed to allegations of victimisations and division and takeover against forum members by forum members.

To (roughly) quote Monty Python's Life of Brian's Judith:-

Something's actually happening Reg, it's actually happening!

[H48HPE]

You're in a good, and I mean *good*, pub on a friday night, pint of Wadworth 6X in hand, and, being a CAMRA member, say to your mate "Hey, this boozer got a good write-up in the latest CAMRA guide!" and he replies "Where's the pub then?". Would you laugh at that?

I would be in absolute stiches and probably rolling around on the floor laughing my head off, although for that particular scenario to work for me it would really need to be a nice pint of Theakstons in my hand at just the right temperature!

theres no point defending yourself with this one, If you read the first post by rich it is followed up by an on topic post by steve which was in the form of a joke, whether or or not individual people found it funny or not is not relevant to what you have turned this argument into (some did and some didn't find it funny) The point is that this very serious (as you put it) although I have to say its not a very serious topic at all, was taken off topic by yourself and others (not steve) who were firstly more interested in putting steve in bad light and secondly wanted to talk about a magazine editor and clasic car mags in general. (the thread was originally about the club website getting reviewed and as I saw it an attempt to congratulate jonathan)

I put it to you that you (they know who they are) knew an argument along these lines was going to kick off and thats why you made the comments you did, I must admit it was a very cunning plan but one I think has no place on a website such as this.

Andy

[e692wtt]

I'm not defending myself, merely expressing a couple of opinions
on a public forum and which other people may or may not agree with.

Different people, different brands of humour, different favourite beers, different opinions.


Originally posted by H48HPE


I put it to you that you (they know who they are) knew an argument along these lines was going to kick off and thats why you made the comments you did, I must admit it was a very cunning plan but one I think has no place on a website such as this.

Andy

That's one particular opinion. I disagree with it.

It is also a very serious allegation to be making in a public forum.

[Austin-Rover]

Okay, okay...Having read through the thread again, its quite obvious to see people's differing tastes of humor. But the question has to be raised, if Steve is so concerned about this so called 'inner circle' nonsense (sorry, i mentiond a name! *slaps wrists*), why did he find it necessary to post a non-constuctive reply to this topic a whole TWO WEEKS after it had been wound up and forgotten about by the rest of the forum?

Instead of replying with a constructive comment such as discussing the Editor of PC (which is the point to which the topic had developed to...) we find a post discussing yet again...humor - which up till that point i regarded as a non-issue in this topic. From what i can see, all this argument has spawned from steves completely pointless post on 9th March about a non-issue which was long forgotten (the topic of the thread had progressed somewhat). And i put it to you, it was posted only to get a reaction from the rest of the forum.

At a point where a nice post concerning Will Holman or the Magazine Review would have added to the topic, we received a post concerning humor that started up this whole silly nonsense. It begs the question if Steve had a problem with anyone on the forum he should have sent a PM to resolve the issue rather than insite an 'us versus them' argument.

Sorry for adding to this whole stupid thread.

(Three cheers for the person who gets it back on topic!)

:laugh:

(Appologies if it differs from your opinion, free speech and all that...)

[H48HPE]

It is also a very serious allegation to be making in a public forum.

really

[e692wtt]

Not that I really care, I gave up caring about this thread a week ago when it was resurrected by Mr Worsley. If you imagine I give a stuff about any of this, you are incorrect. That’s a fact, not an opinion. I'm merely attempting to instigate discussion on what I consider an important topic (others don't agree with this - that is their right) in a Discussion Forum.

I've got bigger fish to fry than indulging in the alleged 'running down of' or 'getting at' other Forum Members (or indeed "anyone, any member of the human race" - to quote Sybil Fawlty [which is the sort of level this thread has been reduced to - farcical]).


Anyway, I will have said all I want to say on this by the end of this paragraph... I have been criticised for expressing opinions and have received other negative feedback - and some divisions between some Club Members are now much more visible and deeper than they were a week ago. That is not good. Why the thread was resurrected a week ago I have no idea. Why Forum Members are leaping to other Forum Members' defence and then telling me Originally posted by H48HPE
theres no point defending yourself with this one, I have no idea. As I say, not that I care for such games. "Of course, the game fails if one of the participants refuses to play" to quote Eric Berne in his book "Games people play"...

[Simon]

*** FROM THE CHAIRMAN ***

I've not been able to follow this thread at work because our firewall has blocked it out. Looking at it at home, yes, very definitely, things have got way out of hand.

Steve: I value your oppinions and your humour. You are a valued member of the club and a dedicated Maestro (and I presume Montego) enthusiast. We need - with respect - younger members like yourself to further our declared cause, which is to promote these cars in the classic car arena (something which is starting to happen already), to cater for their survival into the 21st century and further develop them where Rover Group left off. It is quite easy on a forum posting to have things taken out of the original context that they were meant. Your enthusiasm, passion for this subject and sense of humour I find encouraging to say the least in a world where most people (once again, with respect) of your age would rather don a Burberry cap, earring and drive a "maxed up" Nova/Corsa/Saxo.

Everyone else: (and it has already been stated) I was on the recieving end of some iffy remarks made in Practical Classics. I still buy the magazine and have done so since May 1987. If anybody wants to see how this magazine has changed then they are welcome to come and pick up my entire full back cataloge collected since then and take them off my hands. (lack of storage space, you see!)

When all is said and done we should all be united in putting these cars where they well and truly deserve, at the attention of the movers and shakers in the so called classic car arena. There is no need for petty squabbles amongst our ranks, whether members of the Maestro and Montego Club or just forum browsers.

Indeed, I have been a bit guilty of treating "Maestromad" somewhat unfairly because of his ebay escapades. All I can say is that the best man won the auction(s) in the end and at least we now know he is a genuine enthusiast.

We're none of us perfect, but one thing that we have on our side is our enthusiasm for these cars and the facilities of this superb web resource and the discussion forums that it contains. Long may it continue.

Is that okay then?:)

[H48HPE]

I tend to agree with everything Simons said.

I would say though that this argument being public has been a bonus, Its allowed peoples personalities to come through, possibly sorted issues out for forum members who havnt posted and also serves as a reminder to us all that you cant criticise others and not expect a backlash.

As far as our cars being considered 'clasics' go, I think that these things happen naturally, as the cars become rarer, they get more affection from all for a veriety of reasons, of course there are those that will never like these cars, thats there oppinion and they're entitled to it. The main thing is to carry on as a group of enthusiasts with differing personalities with one aim, to preserve the cars we drive.

Andy

[SimonR]

Originally posted by RDGelder
(Three cheers for the person who gets it back on topic!)

Well, how about this - bringing it very much back on topic, these are two letters taken from p. 16 of the very same issue of Classics that contains the review of our indisputably superb website:

1980s cars are classics...
Regarding the recent debates on what is happening to our eighties 'classics in waiting' - most people I know say their choice of classic was influenced by the car their dad drove, or their uncle, or the bloke next door who dropped them off at school... What we need is more acceptance of '70s and '80s cars within the classic scene, the mk. 1 fiesta could be the Austin A30 of tomorrow, the Maestro a future Minor and maybe the Rover 800 could be the new P6.
Stuart Hadley, Warwickshire


...No they're not
While I applaud in Classics the rejection of the throwaway society, I can't agree that cars from the 1980s need be included. Cars from that era are built to fall apart, are designed to be neutral to drive and have few of the period touches that separate classics from modern stuff.
Jerome Carpenter, Bedfordshire

Critically, what Jerome has missed, whatever one thinks of the build-quality and driving experience of the '80s cars such as ours, is the fun you can have maintaining and driving them, while still enjoying comfort and convenience of more modern cars.

Most of all what he has missed is that is doesn't matter what he or anybody else thinks about our cars - while there is a community of enthusiasts prepared to save and enjoy them they will undoubtedly obtain classic status if they haven't fully already.

So let's stop arguing about trivial things that don't matter and let's focus on the important task of enjoying and promoting our underrated classics.

[Austin-Rover]

Three cheers for you, Sir!

It wont be long until more 80's cars creep into the classics magazines - has the MG Maestro Turbo not reached this status already?

It wont be long until the likes of the Maestro & Montego leave the status of 'old banger' behind and join its cousins the Allegro and Marina, who i am sure were just as much slated for not being a 'true' classic, but look at the following they have now...

[Beaker]

Originally posted by F153JUE So let's stop arguing about trivial things that don't matter and let's focus on the important task of enjoying and promoting our underrated classics.

In agreement :)

[D87 SMW]

Originally posted by RDGelder
It wont be long until the likes of the Maestro & Montego leave the status of 'old banger' behind and join its cousins the Allegro and Marina, who i am sure were just as much slated for not being a 'true' classic, but look at the following they have now...

I can't see it being any better. It'll still be a Maestro/Montego after all. But at least the prices should rise. :p

[e692wtt]

Originally posted by RDGelder
It wont be long until more 80's cars creep into the classics magazines - has the MG Maestro Turbo not reached this status already?

It wont be long until the likes of the Maestro & Montego leave the status of 'old banger' behind and join its cousins the Allegro and Marina, who i am sure were just as much slated for not being a 'true' classic, but look at the following they have now...


To be fair, the MG Maestro Turbo got a reasonable report in Practical Classics (tested alongside such as the MG1300, MG Magnette and MG ZT in 2002 [I think]), but they still stated that the MG Maestro Turbo is fuel injected... *polite, embarrassed cough*

The Marina and Allegro, when covered as 'Readers' Restos', always got good coverage in PC, but any Road Test of these cars in the Mr Holman Era generally meant they got a slating(there were exceptions). Other Classic Cars Mags have been much kinder, and the Allegro and Marina *do* have a thriving following (but so do our cars - earlier in their lives than the Allegro and Marina did in their respective lives?)

And the Maestro and Montego were much better cars then the Allegro and Ital that they replaced. This surely means they are more deserving of 'future classic status' than the Allegro and Ital? Certainly, former owners I speak to are very positive about Maestros and Montegos they once owned...

We need to promote our cars, 'united against the common enemy' as per Judith's comment "Something's actually happening Reg, it's actually happening!" in one of my previous replies. Look 'out' and not 'in', people!:)

[MaestroMatt]

It may not be a classic yet, but I do know that my car looks the mutt's cojones with the new wiper arms and blades, radio aerial and gas struts that I picked up at Ledders the other week. That'd add a few quid to the value, I'm sure.

[Ricky]

Originally posted by MaestroMatt
my car looks the mutt's cojones

Interesting, my A reg Maestro (Swindon registered, just like yours Matt!) currently looks like something the proverbial "mutt" did.....!:laugh:

[Quality]

Originally posted by e692wtt
Other Classic Cars Mags have been much kinder, and the Allegro and Marina *do* have a thriving following (but so do our cars - earlier in their lives than the Allegro and Marina did in their respective lives?)

And the Maestro and Montego were much better cars then the Allegro and Ital that they replaced. This surely means they are more deserving of 'future classic status' than the Allegro and Ital? Certainly, former owners I speak to are very positive about Maestros and Montegos they once owned...

We need to promote our cars, 'united against the common enemy' as per Judith's comment "Something's actually happening Reg, it's actually happening!" in one of my previous replies. Look 'out' and not 'in', people!:)

I own both an Allegro and Montego, the Montego is a better Motorway hack, the Allegro is better in town. The Allegro is better build, suffers less rust and has fewer crappy plastic bits. However I still love both cars, I just changed the Montego's rear bumber, should have taken an hour, due to rusty screws and rusty jacking points it took 4 and a half (the bumper only broke beacuse of the thin plastic), but I would say that the Montego is better designed, but suffers form penny pinching.

I think the whole my car is better than this car is pointless, yes a modern car is going to be better on the whole, but classic status isn't achived by a club, it is gained by age/rarity/amount people are willing to spend to keep a car on the road despite value.

Both Maestro and Allegro suffer from people who haven't driven them but give them a kicking (not saying you havent driven one, just that the mainstream media do like to knock our cars), as do government (no Allegro or Maestro will ever be tax-free).

Certainly, former owners I speak to are very positive about Maestros and Montegos they once owned... as are many of those who talk to me about my Allegro. The Allegro is a clasiic already as they are so rare, I saw at least 10 Maestros/montegos on my way to university today, for me that means classic status is some way off.

Sorry if I have picked on you (I'll buy you a drink if you are going to BL day), I just dump to the defence of the Allegro (and Ital/Marina), in the same way I jump to the defence of the Montego (but not after yesterday's bumper antics for a while).

[Beaker]

Originally posted by Quality
I saw at least 10 Maestros/montegos on my way to university today, for me that means classic status is some way off.

We are lucky to see one maestro round here :( See lots of Montego's tho.

[Quality]

Originally posted by Skatiechik
We are lucky to see one maestro round here :( See lots of Montego's tho.

In Nuneaton there is a very solid P-plate Montego saloon taxi, and the most rust free shiny F-plate Maestro (with chrome handles and mirrors) I have ever seen :D

Wish mine was solid :(

[e692wtt]

Originally posted by Quality
Sorry if I have picked on you (I'll buy you a drink if you are going to BL day), I just dump to the defence of the Allegro (and Ital/Marina), in the same way I jump to the defence of the Montego (but not after yesterday's bumper antics for a while).

Not at all, a good robust defence. I drove a VDP 1500 quite a lot, as well as a Morris 1300GT, both owned by my best mate, when I owned a Mini. I preferred the 1300GT to the VDP but wish I'd brought the VDP when I had the chance. Ah well.

Certainly I believe the Allegro Mk III 'supervroom' was a good car, but sadly it came too late in the day... And I still have a hankering for a Marina (or Ital) even though I've only ever been driven in them...

I'm not saying the Maestro and Montego were better cars per se than their predecessors, but they were fresh models so would be more refined/better packaged etc by definition. Apologies if that wasn't clear in my previous ramblings.:o

[D87 SMW]

Originally posted by Quality
and the most rust free shiny F-plate Maestro (with chrome handles and mirrors) I have ever seen :D

Oh yes? :p :D

[SteveC]

I dont think thats a very appropriate link if im being honest. still If you find it ammusing then thats that

'Amusing'?

Not really... but appropriate?

Definitely.

Lighten up, those snipeing at each other!

[H48HPE]

I think the whole my car is better than this car is pointless, yes a modern car is going to be better on the whole, but classic status isn't achived by a club, it is gained by age/rarity/amount people are willing to spend to keep a car on the road despite value.

I aggree with that statment, although having a club like this gives help and encouragment to owners.

Andy

[MGTurbo]

Originally posted by Quality
I saw at least 10 Maestros/montegos on my way to university today, for me that means classic status is some way off.



Just because they might be common in that area doesnt mean they are not classics. I'm afraid in my opinion, the Maestro and the Montego is now most definatly a classic.

I'll be lucky to see one Maestro a week, MG EFi's are a very rare sight and spotting a Turbo calls for a celebration.

Gareth

[H48HPE]

Originally posted by SteveC
'Amusing'?

Not really... but appropriate?

Definitely.

Lighten up, those snipeing at each other!

If the only way you could manage to get that point accross was to find a picture ridiculing people who are disabled, probably through no fault of their own then you have my sympathy.

Next time think how you would feel if someone close to you had the same complaint as the lad in the photo or another disability and you read a post by someone who was being so flippant about it.

Andy:(

[Quality]

Originally posted by MGTurbo
Just because they might be common in that area doesnt mean they are not classics. I'm afraid in my opinion, the Maestro and the Montego is now most definatly a classic.

I'll be lucky to see one Maestro a week, MG EFi's are a very rare sight and spotting a Turbo calls for a celebration.

Gareth


Fair point, the definition of a classic is never going to be one on which people agree, much like which car are attractive, some all will agree, some all will disagree.

[e692wtt]

Originally posted by H48HPE
Next time think how you would feel if someone close to you had the same complaint as the lad in the photo or another disability and you read a post by someone who was being so flippant about it.

Agreed. I was struggling for the words to say this, so am happy for someone else to say it for me, having 'walked the walk' looking after someone very close to me who just *happened* to be disabled (we didn't realise how seriously until the end drew nigh) for several years until February 2003.

Originally posted by SteveC Lighten up

Hmm...

[Quality]

Originally posted by H48HPE
I aggree with that statment, although having a club like this gives help and encouragment to owners.

Andy

completely agree, i didn't want to trivalise anyones efforts, without the club my montego would have been scrapped.

[SteveC]

Originally posted by e692wtt
Agreed. I was struggling for the words to say this, so am happy for someone else to say it for me, having 'walked the walk' looking after someone very close to me who just *happened* to be disabled (we didn't realise how seriously until the end drew nigh) for several years until February 2003.

Hmm...

'Oh, the irony...'

No disrespect lads, but the computer I've been using to get on the net of late is my sisters... my disabled sister who is looking at the moment likely to be having her hip fused in the near future, as the strain being placed on spine and back by her impacted leg and pelvis which was shattered by a fall off of a rather large building about 10 years ago, is gradually crippling her.

In fact the reason I ended up buying the Montego off my dad, was because I recently used it to collect her mobility scooter which she'd had to save up for, for ages, and I took a shine to it then.

I maintain the sentiment of that link is right; arguing on the net is pointless, at least when it concerns a load of people puffing up their chests over something and nothing.

Sorry if that link offended, but it doesn't offend my sister for one, and if you spent any length of time with someone who was disabled, you'd probably learn quite quickly that the last thing they invariably want, is to live in a namby pamby, politically correct nanny state.

[e692wtt]

Originally posted by SteveC
I maintain the sentiment of that link is right; arguing on the net is pointless, at least when it concerns a load of people puffing up their chests over something and nothing.

Sorry if that link offended, but it doesn't offend my sister for one, and if you spent any length of time with someone who was disabled, you'd probably learn quite quickly that the last thing they invariably want, is to live in a namby pamby, politically correct nanny state.


No, part of your sentiment is right, arguing on the net is pretty pointless. But I'm not happy about the 'retarded' (or whatever...) comments.

My late wife (note the word late , ie she is now dead , I became a widower at 32 years of age, do you get it now?) would have found the link hilarious as well.

One point you are missing about 'spending any length of time with someone who was disabled' is that they inspire with their courage and strength when times are difficult - they just don't 'give in' to their problems. I spent 4 years looking after Wendy, 2 1/2 years as full time Carer as she became increasingly disabled. So a comment along the lines of 'whatever you do, you are still retarded' is, in my opinion, errm, rubbish. And I find it extremely offensive.

Don't even consider talking about 'political correctness' and 'namby pamby nanny states'... Wendy had a brain tumour and this gave her trouble walking... how many times did people of the older generation go up to her in the street and say "You are drunk! You disgust me!", and they also asked me why I had let her get so drunk and then taken her out? Ooh, hundreds of times, that happened. She also had a form of muscular dystrophy that eventually killed her (Septicaemia and Pneumonia, rather ugly death in Intensive Care at the local Hospital). Faulty genes off her father, that's the only reason... No-one's fault, it just happened.

When you've cared for somebody for months, 24/7, doing everything including wiping their bottom for them, as I did, on top of working part time and bringing 3 teenage stepkids up, and still the person you are caring for inspires you and gives you reasons to keep on living, you will see where I am coming from.

I fully expect you not to see where I am coming from until you have done this... and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy either.:)

[SteveC]

Originally posted by e692wtt
[B]No, part of your sentiment is right, arguing on the net is pretty pointless.

Ooh, let's cloud the issue some more ;)

'Arguing on the net' isn't necessarily pointless, but the arguing in question further up this thread, was...

That was the point I was trying to make, but as usual, people have over-reacted, just as they do in most facades of life these days.

Let's just agree to disagree, lest I at least, fall upon the sword I initially wielded.

[e692wtt]

Originally posted by SteveC
Let's just agree to disagree, lest I at least, fall upon the sword I initially wielded.

Aye, ok. Thanks.:)

[Simon]

Stop it now please. Let's get back to Maestro's and Montego's shall we? After all, that's why we are all meant to be here. Thanks.

[SteveC]

Originally posted by Simon
Stop it now please. Let's get back to Maestro's and Montego's shall we? After all, that's why we are all meant to be here. Thanks.

The phrase 'shutting the door after the horse has bolted', springs to mind... :P